The Christian God Does Violate Human Free Will

[Drich]

Who said anything about being king of the world?  I'm just not a slave, like you, I don't choose to serve either of the things you chose between, nor do you..as a slave..have the ability to confine my choices any more than your chosen master.  

At least -try- man......

So you want a demonstration?

You say your not a slave of sin nor God.

If you are not a slave to sin then you can stop right?

Or will you just pretend their is no such thing? That 'morality is all the 'right and wrong' you need?

Since you can not stop sinning (meaning you would have to admit slavery) I will assume that you want to pretend it does not exist. So then I ask if 'pop morality' is your standard can you at least live by the defining attributes of pop morality without breaking them or lowering the bar?

I've answered that one for you in the "pop morality thread" several times over now. In that pop morality identifies slavery as being very very bad, and killing people on a genocide level even worse.

Yet I have shown that you not only support these two huge violations of your morality, that life itself as we know it would not exist without one of them/slavery.

So because life as you know it would cease to exist (subsequently why nothing is being done nor ever will be done about these violations of your morality, except just renaming them to change their stigma) one can conclude you are still a slave to sin/immorality. You literally can not live in this or any western society, that is completely dependent on slavery, and maintain a real sense of 'morality'/freedom from sin. Because even by your own standard you are bound/tied to your immorality, or rather sin.

That is why you and so many like you fought so hard to maintain that migrant workers and out sourced sweat shop workers were not slaves. You need the propaganda in place that says you are good people so you can pretend you are yourselves not slaves to sin, and don't need God nor His redemption.

What do you think that whole thread was about? It was to show you an honest look at your own bondage. Bondage to a society the gives you redemption in it's 'morality' by virtue of it's vocabulary, and clemency by the fact that everyone else is just as guilty as you are. In return all it will cost is any possible alliance you may have with God, and strict allegiance to pop morality and it's P/C way of life.

[The Grand Nudger]

When did you stop beating your wife? Since you can't stop beating your wife, or you'll simply pretend that you don't, you don't get to talk to me about sin.

You're as powerless now, after this "demonstration" as you were before, and your god remains powerless with you. I remain my own, and I still choose to serve neither. I think it;s funny that you feel that one of your posts is a demonstration of god's mastery or the binary nature of the choices available...lol. Seems to me more like the ramblings of an idiot. Bet it seems that way to "god" too. Carry on.

[Drich]

When did you stop beating your wife?  Since you can't stop beating your wife, or you'll simply pretend that you don't, you don't get to talk to me about sin.  

You're as powerless now, after this "demonstration" as you were before, and your god remains powerless with you.  I remain my own, and I still choose to serve neither.  I think it;s funny that you feel that one of your posts is a demonstration of god's mastery or the binary nature of the choices available...lol.  Seems to me more like the ramblings of an idiot.  Bet it seems that way to "god" too.  Carry on.

Awe that's cute.. Your mockery is an attempt to turn the tables on me by using my own method against me.. If I may offer you a pointer.. Before you can blindly charge that I 'beat my wife.' you must first establish that I have indeed 'beat her' in some way shape or form. otherwise your charge can be outright dismissed.

For example with my position on slavery I have shown that western society is completely dependent on slavery from the food we eat to the things we buy, to even the very raw materials we build everything out of. So even if you directly benefit from slavery, the society that supports your way of life does. Which means everything you have build or benefited from this society is due in large part because of the support structure that slavery affords you.

[The Grand Nudger]

You failed, again, to force me to choose to serve either.  How long is this supposed to take? At what point will this power of yours, or your god, manifest itself? Hopefully it doesn't take as long as christs return has. I don't have that long to live.

[LadyForCamus]

Some of the more esoteric franchises of theism try to get round this by creating a distinction between 'moral evil' and 'natural evil'. For example, willful sinning (theft, adultery, murder, perjury, and so forth) are moral evils, because humans have the option to not engage in this behaviour. When, on the other hand, your village of fisherfolk is buried in a mudslide, this is a natural evil, which means it was going to happen irrespective of human choice.

This has always struck me as pretty ad hoc. If natural evils don't violate free will, then why do preachers of all stripes consign earthquakes, mudslides, volcanic eruptions, tsunamis and the like to 'God's will' or 'God's plan'? If God plans for me to get struck by lightning, and God is the causative agent of moral law, then - not only is my free will violated - but the so called 'natural evil' immediately becomes 'moral evil'. There is no effective difference between the two.

Boru

No, no, no, you misunderstand! If you were to be struck by lightening, it's not God violating your free will, it's God "calling you home"! *puke*

[Drich]

You failed, again, to force me to choose to serve either.  How long is this supposed to take?  At what point will this power of yours, or your god, manifest itself?  Hopefully it doesn't take as long as christs return has.  I don't have that long to live.

How have i failed exactly? because you will not acknowledge the choice you made?

I have identified the choice you made. Your compliance or acknowledgement is not needed. It by your fruits that i can identify you, not what you pretend to be.

[The Grand Nudger]

When did you stop beating your wife, again? Stop staring at my fruits. Look, Drich, you're stomping your feet because you were unable to make me choose to serve either...but did you really expect that you would be able to? Are you that fucking dense? I doubt it.

You're unable to hold me to your false dichotomy, and so is god. Now you can claim that he'll hurt me real bad for it, or that he'll throw me into a pit of nothingness for refusing to play his little game, or whatever...but neither he nor you can actually make me choose between two things I have no interest in serving, and I'm unmoved by threats.

[Old Baby]

The bible tells us that when Jesus returns, every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that he is lord.   In order to do this won’t god have to violate a lot of free will?

Their will be billions of people who will look back at all the pain, the sorrow, the agony, anger, violence, misery, injustice and suffering that has permeated human history, and when god reveals his ultimate plan, they will say, “No! The end doesn’t justify the means.”

These people will have to be forced if every knee is going to bow and every tongue confess.

But if god is the same unchanging today, yesterday and forever, why was he unwilling to violate free will not even to prevent suffering and evil, but is now will to violate it to force people to worship him?

Does anyone else have a problem with the priorities of this psycho egomaniac? No, I should say with the people who dreamed up this psycho egomaniac and called him god.

See, I wouldn't necessarily conclude that God is going to force people's knee to bow, but rather that everyone will be pleading with God to save them after it's too late.  When I was a believer, I never read it in the way you are.  Instead, I just always thought that the "unsaved" masses would be repenting when faced with their eternal damnation.  So, take comfort that God won't violate your free will as he's tossing you into the lake of fire.

[The Grand Nudger]

I never much cared for being tossed into a lake of fire, personally.

[Old Baby]

I never much cared for being tossed into a lake of fire, personally.

Wear your flame retardant bikini on Judgment Day fella.