The Problem with Christians

[Huggy Bear]

I just want to say thank you to the theist participants in this thread for quite comprehensively demonstrating the rationale set out in the OP. Well done!

How about a challenge? You dig up every illogical argument I've made, and i'll dig up every illogical argument made by atheists, and well tally up who has more...

deal?

[abaris]

I'm still waiting for the scientific argument for the existence of the supernatural. Which would be at the very foundation of this thread.

[Huggy Bear]

No, the basis of this thread is the pretension that Atheists don't make illogical arguments.

[AJW333]

The Bible correctly predicts the rise of an end-times antichrist system. Why would a ragtag bunch of Jews 2000 years ago have the audacity to predict that the entire world would end up engulfed in a battle between what they believed as Christians and the forces denying their beliefs. It's an outrageously unlikely prediction and yet here we are watching it unfold. Fundamental Islam is slaughtering people all over the world for simply refusing to submit to its totalitarian demands. How is my observation of the actions of Islam bigotry or ignorance?

If you despise the Christian faith, how on earth could you not feel the same way about Islam?

Hey dude? I'll give you a big ol' hint: the Islamic religion does not "deny" christian beliefs. Allah is the Abrahamic god, it's just a different interpretation than yours, with one extra prophet. Hell, Jesus is still an important, accepted Messianic figure in Islam, it's just that their story has a canonical third part, where yours stops at the New Testament. In no sense are christian beliefs denied by islam, and more than they're denied by freaking protestantism.

This comment probably deserves its own thread since it is so far off the mark. Islam denies that Jesus is the son of God. It denies that he is God, which is central to Christian belief. Their messiah is the twelfth imam or the Mahdi, and he is definitely not Jesus, in fact it is likely that the Mahdi is none other than the antichrist himself. Christianity says Jesus is the  only path to eternal life and Islam says that worship of Allah and Mohammed are the only path. I could go on and on about how the beliefs of the two religions contradict each other to the point of being diametrically opposed but this will suffice for now.    

Also, your description of this war is rather... limited, I believe intentionally so. You really think you've got just christians on one side, and islam on the other? These would be the same islamic terrorists who have also been attacking old temples dedicated to Baal, and even to destroying the culture of other islamic sects? Are you just not aware of the damage ISIS is wreaking on other religions? And wouldn't you have to conclude, taking into account the actual scope of the attacks here, and not simply those ones that impact you, that this is, in fact, not a battle between christianity and fundamentalist islam, but between fundamentalist islam and every other religion?

Fair point. It is noteworthy though that there are more than a few researchers stating that Christians are the most persecuted people group in the world, especially in the middle east.

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So I guess an anti-theistic government would suit you right down to the ground? In terms of anti-theistic regimes of the 20th century how well did they treat their  citizens? Not well when you consider that practically every communist (anti theist) country of the 20th century slaughtered huge numbers of their own people and denied them a host of basic human rights. Consider the USSR,  China, East Germany, Romania, North Korea, the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia etc etc. On the other hand, countries that we might consider "Christian" seemed to fare much better. I know where I'd rather live.

No one wants an anti-theistic government. What we want is for everyone to be free to believe whatever they want without the (secular) government getting involved-- or, as everyone else on the planet but religious fundamentalists like to call it, non-theocratic.

Forgive my skepticism but this is hard to believe. If you really value the rights of people to believe whatever they want, why all the antagonism towards believers? If you and/or others here think that religion causes nothing but problems, wouldn't you rather see it gotten rid of? I know that's how some folk on this forum think.

From a Christian perspective, I think it would be great to have Christian leaders. As an atheist, I presume you believe that is the best ideology so why wouldn't you want to see atheist leaders?

[Pat Mustard]

The Bible correctly predicts the rise of an end-times antichrist system.

Quick question: how can you have a correct prediction of something that hasn't happened? It's like me talking about that lovely, satisfying shit I'm going to have next Thursday.

You can't shit on Patrick's day! It takes too much time away from drinking.

[AJW333]

So I guess an anti-theistic government would suit you right down to the ground? In terms of anti-theistic regimes of the 20th century how well did they treat their  citizens? Not well when you consider that practically every communist (anti theist) country of the 20th century slaughtered huge numbers of their own people and denied them a host of basic human rights. Consider the USSR,  China, East Germany, Romania, North Korea, the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia etc etc. On the other hand, countries that we might consider "Christian" seemed to fare much better. I know where I'd rather live.

Here it is.  We old timers know whats coming.  INQUISITION.  600 years or so of christian rule.  Oh yeah, that went well.

The Inquisition was a godless, anti-Christian movement that totally misrepresented the faith. As bad as they were though, they never got close to the murderous efforts of the anti-theist communists of the 20th century, a time where there was precious little violence conducted by Christians.

[robvalue]

[AJW333]

[AJW333]

The Bible correctly predicts the rise of an end-times antichrist system.

Quick question: how can you have a correct prediction of something that hasn't happened? It's like me talking about that lovely, satisfying shit I'm going to have next Thursday.

The antichrist system has been around for a long time and is growing. The fact that persecution of Christians has grown dramatically in recent years is testament to this. It is interesting that a handful of Jewish Christians would predict that not only would their religion be around in 2000 years but that it would attract such opposition.

[The Grand Nudger]

Obviously studying magic book doesn't tell us that we're in the end times.  People have been studying magic book since magic book was written and have been confidently declaring their own generation to be the last, that the end is nigh.  They've been wrong.  I don't blame them, as we've determined, magic book says many things.   Perhaps you should have all taken a breath, and waited for the return of your king, before declaring any specific time to be the end time?

Why do you think people have been getting it wrong? Is magic book wrong? Is magic book unclear? Have it's readers, including yourself, failed to properly leverage magic book?