The Problem with Christians

[abaris]

Looks more and more like a Randy sock. Or maybe some Randy foot soldier being sent here to continue on the same lines.

So, dear Randy clone, are you aware of Egyptian history. How much they actually wrote down, even about the little details of daily life? That we even have the names of the workers crews building the pyramids? Wouldn't you agree that a Pharao vanishing with his whole army would make for a worthy report, since the most organised nation of the time suddenly would have had no leader and no defense? Are you aware that believing in the bible tale is contradicting even jewish historians? Do you have access to a map? Care to explain how one should spend 40 years there without reaching one's destination? Care to explain, why the route through the Red Sea would have even been an option, when looking at the map?

You evaded that once already while firing off your sermons. Make some sense, will you? I'm not holding my breath, since I smell Randy in the background.

[athrock]

I wonder... athrock...
Actually, I've wondered this for a long time and the conclusion only seems damning for catholicism....
Why are the Essenes not mentioned in the bible?

They came into existence AFTER the last of the Old Testament Prophets, so they got no mention in the OT.

They were relatively few in number, were unmarried celibates, and often lived in separate communities, so they got no explicit mention in the NT.

However, some verses in the NT seem to refer directly to Essene doctrines:

But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given. For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it. (Matthew 19:11-12)
 
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. (Colossians 2:8)
 
Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind (Colossians 2:18)

Seriously, your ongoing fascination with this group, and the Teacher of Righteousness, are way out of proportion to their historical significance.

[athrock]

Looks more and more like a Randy sock. Or maybe some Randy foot soldier being sent here to continue on the same lines.

So, dear Randy clone, are you aware of Egyptian history. How much they actually wrote down, even about the little details of daily life? That we even have the names of the workers crews building the pyramids? Wouldn't you agree that a Pharao vanishing with his whole army would make for a worthy report, since the most organised nation of the time suddenly would have had no leader and no defense? Are you aware that believing in the bible tale is contradicting even jewish historians? Do you have access to a map? Care to explain how one should spend 40 years there without reaching one's destination? Care to explain, why the route through the Red Sea would have even been an option, when looking at the map?

You evaded that once already while firing off your sermons. Make some sense, will you? I'm not holding my breath, since I smell Randy in the background.

Didn't we cover all this back in January?

[Mr.wizard]

No we are not saying the same thing! If pharaoh's heart couldn't harden without gods permission that means his free will was already violated. Either god hardened his heart violating his free will or his heart couldn't be hardened until god permitted it which was also violating his free will.

Pharaoh's heart could be hardened on his own accord. He did not need God's permission. 

Let me this in negative terms. God did not prevent Pharaoh from hardening his own heart. To do so would have violated Pharaoh's free will. God allowed Pharaoh to choose. As the events unfolded, it became obvious that Pharaoh had chosen to harden his own heart. God allowed him to do this.

 Why does god need to allow anything or give permission if you have free will? If god has to allow or permit it to happen then its not free will. Free will would mean pharaoh could harden his heart whether or not god permitted it.

[athrock]

Pharaoh's heart could be hardened on his own accord. He did not need God's permission. 

Let me this in negative terms. God did not prevent Pharaoh from hardening his own heart. To do so would have violated Pharaoh's free will. God allowed Pharaoh to choose. As the events unfolded, it became obvious that Pharaoh had chosen to harden his own heart. God allowed him to do this.

 Why does god need to allow anything or give permission if you have free will? If god has to allow or permit it to happen then its not free will. Free will would mean pharaoh could harden his heart whether or not god permitted it.

God will or allows all things. It's ALL under His control ultimately. However, He respects our free will, and allows us to choose.

Pretty simple.

[Mr.wizard]

And I'm done

[pocaracas]

I wonder... athrock...
Actually, I've wondered this for a long time and the conclusion only seems damning for catholicism....
Why are the Essenes not mentioned in the bible?

They came into existence AFTER the last of the Old Testament Prophets, so they got no mention in the OT.

That's not what I gathered....

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsou...adsea.html
"
Archeological and historical evidence indicates that Qumran was founded in the second half of the second century B.C.E., during the time of the Maccabean dynasty. A hiatus in the occupation of the site is linked to evidence of a huge earthquake. Qumran was abandoned about the time of the Roman incursion of 68 C.E., two years before the collapse of Jewish self-government in Judea and the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in 70 C.E.
"

They were relatively few in number, were unmarried celibates, and often lived in separate communities, so they got no explicit mention in the NT.

However, some verses in the NT seem to refer directly to Essene doctrines:

But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given. For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it. (Matthew 19:11-12)
 
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. (Colossians 2:8)
 
Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind (Colossians 2:18)

I fail to see how that is mentioning the Essenes...

Seriously, your ongoing fascination with this group, and the Teacher of Righteousness, are way out of proportion to their historical significance.

yes... well... maybe they were the original "christians" and became inconvenient for the story we know to stick, so their memory got erased from "history".
Until the dead sea scrolls surfaced...

[abaris]

Didn't we cover all this back in January?

Thought as much.

[LadyForCamus]

*raises hand* if the bible is the word of God, why did God not say exactly what he meant? Why did he say something that sounds like the opposite of what you, athrock, say he actually meant, to the point that it would take theological and/or literary scholars to decipher the "true" meaning? I'm sorry that people don't like what their book says. I'm sorry it contradicts itself. But, it makes no sense that God would be vague on any recounting of his almighty actions. Apologetics makes me kind of sad...for the twists and turns you force your brains through to reconcile this stuff...and for once I am not being snarky.

[abaris]

Don't bother. It was Randy. He might have been able to hide his IP for some time. His ignorant arrogance on the other hand is a dead giveaway.