Problems understanding naturalistically the beginning of the universe

[Mister Agenda]

He seems to think that the Bible is evidence of itself. Anyone wanna explain that a claim can't prove itself, or are we just letting that one go?

This is a wrong way of seeing. I have heard the circular argument myself and I find that it gets life from theoligical ignorance. "The Bible" is not a book. It is a collection of writings that was given that name, so "The Bible is not correct because the Bible is so". The revelation of God was given to the prophets and some of them (some by God's command) wrote it, for example, Isaiah. How do I know that God created the world? He revealed it to Moses, and when He came on earth, he didn't disprove Moses's revelation but supported it.

Because it says so in the Bible. How do you know it's true? Because it says so in the Bible.

[Mister Agenda]

Yeah, I think he is. How dull.

No, he's Orthodox. They believe logic must be on their side, so you get stuff like this.

[Edwardo Piet]

Sigh... big bang.

[pocaracas]

ooOOOoooooo Alex, this image is a bit more breathtaking.... but requires some stretch of the imagination.... (and boost it to full size):

You can find it at the wiki page for the solar system: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_System

[Wryetui]

ooOOOoooooo Alex, this image is a bit more breathtaking.... but requires some stretch of the imagination.... (and boost it to full size):

You can find it at the wiki page for the solar system: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_System

I assume that this beautiful image should teach me something, but certainly I have a problem grasping its meaning. Tell me, what is the nature of these beautiful pictures?

[Mister Agenda]

Probably nothing more than sharing beautiful pictures. We sometimes get off track.

[pocaracas]

ooOOOoooooo Alex, this image is a bit more breathtaking.... but requires some stretch of the imagination.... (and boost it to full size):

You can find it at the wiki page for the solar system: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_System

I assume that this beautiful image should teach me something, but certainly I have a problem grasping its meaning. Tell me, what is the nature of these beautiful pictures?

Just something called scale.

[drfuzzy]

ooOOOoooooo Alex, this image is a bit more breathtaking.... but requires some stretch of the imagination.... (and boost it to full size):

You can find it at the wiki page for the solar system: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_System

I assume that this beautiful image should teach me something, but certainly I have a problem grasping its meaning. Tell me, what is the nature of these beautiful pictures?

Yes, we get it, you are either too stupid or too brainwashed to comprehend the vastness of the known universe, but you're perfectly willing to preach to people who obviously need your guidance.

[drfuzzy]

How can you tell me something like that? On what are you based for calling me a "troll"? I was trying to mantian a conversation but if you think you are too good enough for it and that "I must be trolling" is entirely up to you. If you believe you know more about "The Bible" than someone who is studying Theology at college I doubt it. Besides insults and condescendence I have received nothing, the truth keeps being the same, there is no point in having a naturalistic cosmology because it does not make sense, and no one actually has proven me that it does, just speculation and commitment to nothing.

A lot of atheists here DID study Theology at college.  Years ago. So you can get your egotistical holier-than-thou "I know better than you" nose out of the air, pull your head out of your ass, and go read some REAL science.

But you'll probably just go on hiding in your fantasy, because lying to people in order to collect their money is just too good of a con game.

[LadyForCamus]

Hello to everyone (I have seen a post that is like this one but the forum adviced me to create another thread since that one was too old).

This matter "worried" me most when I was an atheist. I deeply believe that God created ex-nihilo the universe and I find it correct due to a number of reasons, but in this thread I am interested in speaking only naturalistically, in order to consider if actually the atheist cosmology is plausible now that I have a better understanding of the world and to eventually find a solution to this struggle that my atheist friends now (and myself many years ago) have. According to the Wikipedia: "The Big Bang is a scientific theory about how the universe started, and then made the groups of stars (called galaxies) we see today. The universe began as very hot, small, and dense, with no stars, atoms, form, or structure (called a "singularity"). Then about 14 billion years ago, space expanded very quickly (thus the name "Big Bang"), resulting in the formation of atoms, which eventually led to the creation of stars and galaxies. The universe is still expanding today, but getting colder as well.", and this is what I believed. But my main question is, since: "The universe began as very hot, small, and dense, with no stars, atoms, form, or structure (called a "singularity"). Then about 14 billion years ago, space expanded very quickly", since the universe actually began, where did it begin from? The universe is all we know for sure (and sometimes not even for sure), but how can something exist outside the universe? Where was this very hot, small and dense structure since the universe "didn't happen" yet?

Thank you, and I remind that I would want this thread to remain naturalistic, without interference from any kind of religion account.

Sounds to me like you are trying (not so discretely) to shift the burden of proof. Sorry. Doesn't work that way.