Problems understanding naturalistically the beginning of the universe

[LadyForCamus]

[LadyForCamus]

Every dot is a galaxy. And this is just our relative cosmic neighborhood.

Holy... *drops*

[TheRocketSurgeon]

Wry,

Are you trying to convince us that you are right?  Honestly, why are you here?  Please understand that you will likely never persuade an atheist that God exists by using the bible.  So...what is your angle here?

I often wonder why they come here to debate. I mean, as you well know I'm up for a good debate, but why that?

You only ever see them on threads attacking science [Edit to Add: which I find odd, since most of the scientists I've known in my career and personal life have been Christians], telling us false information about ourselves (because their pastors and religious-book writers lied to them, I think, and not because they see themselves as lying), and making terrible and illogical claims that they are so certain are sound that they don't even listen to us explaining why they're leaps of (il)logic.

What I never see is Christians who visit the "shit that happened to me because people are bigoted against atheists" threads, or looking at our talk of personal/life problems, or where we talk about our favorite cars (etc.) for social purposes. That tells me they are not interested in us as people, but as objects-- unfortunately, as objects they can misrepresent in their own minds to justify the way they speak to us, most of the time.

I will give credit where it is due; we have a Muslim and a few Christian posters I've seen really treating us like people, wanting to share in our human experience, and willing to see that while freedom from religion is what makes an atheist, our humanity is otherwise the same as theirs.

[robvalue]

Oh, the argument from design again, and the cosmological argument.

These are not evidence, these are arguments in lieu of evidence.

What would a non-designed universe look like, and how do you know this?

How much of the universe would you expect to be lethal to us, if it was designed with us in mind?

The universe "had a cause", why? Because you say so? The cosmological argument is nothing but a bunch of assertions. And calling a cause "God" does not imbue it with intelligence or magic powers; or render it immune to your own premises.

Questions still unanswered, as far as I'm aware.

[Jackalope]

Every dot is a galaxy. And this is just our relative cosmic neighborhood.

Why, there must be hundreds of the darn things. Whodathunkit?

[Minimalist]

This is a wrong way of seeing. I have heard the circular argument myself and I find that it gets life from theoligical ignorance. "The Bible" is not a book. It is a collection of writings that was given that name, so "The Bible is not correct because the Bible is so". The revelation of God was given to the prophets and some of them (some by God's command) wrote it, for example, Isaiah. How do I know that God created the world? He revealed it to Moses, and when He came on earth, he didn't disprove Moses's revelation but supported it.

Because it says so in the Bible. How do you know it's true? Because it says so in the Bible.

Been there....heard all this shit before.

[Alex K]

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Every dot is a galaxy. And this is just our relative cosmic neighborhood.

If you look closely, dim your screen a bit, squint, and load up on cough syrup, you can see, in the upper right quadrant, Jesus riding a camel and wearing a necktie with the slogan, 'Wilt Thou Kiss Me In The Dark, Baby?'

Boru

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

How can you tell me something like that? On what are you based for calling me a "troll"? I was trying to mantian a conversation but if you think you are too good enough for it and that "I must be trolling" is entirely up to you. If you believe you know more about "The Bible" than someone who is studying Theology at college I doubt it. Besides insults and condescendence I have received nothing, the truth keeps being the same, there is no point in having a naturalistic cosmology because it does not make sense, and no one actually has proven me that it does, just speculation and commitment to nothing.

Well, you've received notice that you're a plagiarist and a quote miner, isn't that enough?

Boru

[Alex K]

How can you tell me something like that? On what are you based for calling me a "troll"? I was trying to mantian a conversation but if you think you are too good enough for it and that "I must be trolling" is entirely up to you. If you believe you know more about "The Bible" than someone who is studying Theology at college I doubt it. Besides insults and condescendence I have received nothing, the truth keeps being the same, there is no point in having a naturalistic cosmology because it does not make sense, and no one actually has proven me that it does, just speculation and commitment to nothing.

Well, you've received notice that you're a plagiarist and a quote miner, isn't that enough?

Boru

and an explanation of current views about early cosmology.