Most personally convincing reasons you don't believe.

[emjay]

Watching people try to use reason in a discussion with Drich is like a trainwreck.  The results are horrible and it gets nowhere, but I can't look away.

Yeah, I think it's gonna be pigeons all the way down.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

Like the book of Matthew. Seriously, Jesus is riding two donkeys? Two fucking donkeys?

And people have been taking this shit seriously for two thousand years...I can't even.

Yeah, I read about this. I believe Matthew was really desparate to fulfil Old Testament prophecies, so he was scouring the texts for things to write, but his ability to translate wasn't very good. The text he tries to refer to only mentioned one donkey, but mentioned it twice, and he thought it was two separate donkeys. It's a dead giveaway as to what the gospel authors were up to.

And yeah... people take this shit seriously? Beggars belief.

Think outside the box.  https://onsizzle.com/i/donkey-facebook-s...key-123905

[Drich]

[quote='Drich' pid='1272993' dateline='1463056040']

...And if nothing/no one in the bible never claimed to be infallible? The closest thing we have is "All Scripture is ·inspired by God [breathed out by God; L God-breathed] and is useful for teaching, for ·showing people what is wrong in their lives [refuting error; rebuking], for correcting faults, and for ·teaching how to live right [training in righteousness]." from 1 Tim 3:16

The idea of biblical infallibility was to counter the authority of Papal Infallibility in the reformation movement. Meaning it is a foolish doctrine of man, and not a decree from God.

I say that because Paul seems to understand that the bible does not have to be perfect as 'prefection' is not required from us. We have been given the bible not as a item to worship or revere as holy, but as a tool so that we may seek the Holy Spirit/God which is perfect, and to use as a standard to 'proof' that what we sought and found was indeed the Holy Spirit.

People who 'need' the bible to be infallible do not understand what Basic Christianity is. Nor how it was intended to be established or maintained.

Well at least one Christian admits it's fallible.

I didn't say it was fallible. I have been studying for 20+ years and yet to find a critical error or contradiction.
I simply relayed the bible does not claim infallibility, and I told you where the mythos of infallibility came from.

But a fallible Bible could never be enough for me...

That's the point!!! The bible Fallible or not is not supposed to be enough. This isn't some man made religious nonsense. The bible is the key to give you direct access to God. It is also the tool we use to verify it is God who we are speaking with.

For instance in my first encounter I was judged and sent to Hell. Long before I knew the specifics of what the bible said about judgement, Hell, or the nature of any of it. My understanding was based on the Roman catholic model of St.Peter standing at the gates, levels of a hell where Satan ruled. Everything as far as i knew of the Judgement and Hell was completely Wrong. Yet slowly and over very long periods of study I have found my experience to reflect exactly what the bible says about our judgement. Again the bible was the tool I use to vet my experience. It was also the tool I used to Find God. It is not the center of my experience of God.

if I'd known that when I was growing up I might not have been a Christian at all, who knows. If I'm gonna believe in a supernatural deity I need to be damn sure I know when I'm talking to him and hearing from him but with a fallible Bible that's impossible.

But again, fallibility by what measure? What how can you determine something fallible if in fact you can not vet the claims being made?

Only God can verify the claims and full fill the promises in the bible. Therefore 'infallibility' is to be sought in and through God, not the directions used to find Him. If your looking for the 'perfect' set of direction, you haved missed the whole point of the bible to begin with, as you will not know if you found them unless you are where you want to be (with God)

All it can be in that case is what I think/feel to be inspired in it... but that's how you've got a million different flavors of Christianity...

Actually no. We have "a million different flavors" because God wanted it that way. We have been given only 2 Great commands to follow, with the freedom to allow those two commands to manifest anyway we need them to in order to follow them. Even in the first century church there was freedom to be different. Why else do you think we have a book or letter to the Romans which was different than the letter to the corinthians which again is complete different than the letter to the Galatians or the Ephesians? Why would God speak to individual congregations allowing them to manifest beliefs and establish traditions around their very different cultures, rather than send one set of rules as he did with the Jews?

Our diversity is our greatest strength, even if most of us do not understand it.

each one thinking it knows the inspired part. Can you at least acknowledge that problem?

No because again Paul points to the church as being like the physical Body of Christ. Each one of us has a different role, function, as a member of the body. and we are shaped and tailored for our intended use. Which makes us all a little different. So for a congregation of "hands" they will seek out 'work' that hands do, and for them this is what the whole word of God is about. For a congregation of 'eyes' they will seek out work that eyes do, and so on.

Now if the whole body of believers were hands or eyes then yes all that is needed is one church one doctrine. However as it has been explained to us in several places in scripture, we are all different and our roles in the body of believers are different, and therefore it is not a hand's or an eye's place to judge how a 'foot' or ear serves the body.

Maybe we can agree to disagree on the value of A/S/K but being very interested in psychology and neuroscience I personally can't ignore that it is perfect example of confirmation bias.

It depends on what you find. I found information I was never exposed to and had to fight my way to the truth over years and years of empty traditional teaching to what the bible actually says.

If God upon you A/S/K-ing send someone to stand in front of you if for only a few mins and confirm who you are, who He is and your roll in how all of "this" works... How would that confirm a bias, especially if it has you change what you think is true?

So it may be enough to convince you but it could never be enough to convince me...

That is the wonderful thing about God. He does not paint with broad brush strokes. He tailor fits experiences to individuals. Look at doubting Thomas. Thomas said he could not believe unless he could put his fingers into the holes the nails and spear left. What did God do? He commended those who have sheer strength of faith to believe and sustain their belief, but did he punish Thomas or demand that he just poop the faith needed to first believe? No, He told Thomas to 'meet Him half way' to be in an upper room of a house in the middle of a city where they were being hunted and he was there. Then Jesus did what Thomas needed to establish and maintain his belief to a martyrs Death!

That is What A/S/K does It is God's command that we meet Him 1/2 way. to Humble ourselves enough to earnestly seek out the truth whatever it takes. Why? because the harder your heart the longer the journey. God has to take you to a place to where all else/possible answers or doubt is stripped away, so that you nothing but God could have given you whatever it you received.

What would be the point of giving you what he gave me if you never took the 20 years (A/S/K) i took to vet out all the details of Hell? What would you have after that experience? some new sheets? A/S/K is a continuing way of life. the more/longer you are faith to Him the more you will be given.

no judgement there, just personally it could never convince me because of what I know about psychology... and psychology is my life. I've seen it in action too many times to ever trust it... particularly playing mafia... how you can believe to the core of your being that you're right when you're completely wrong. Maybe you should have a game some time, see for yourself what I'm talking about? You'd be perfectly welcome down there - it's one place on the forum where religion doesn't come into it in the slightest... plenty of theists play and we all get on like a house on fire.

I'd love to play but time is something I find myself running out of alot more lately. Maybe when things slow down in the winter months remind me again.

[Drich]

I believe the "q" thing as well. Why?

Because if and when God does reveal Himself and can be "proven" it will be done so in the manor in which the "federation" Identifies and classifies all "q". We will see them/Him as alien/Trans-dimensional being. With power or the technology to "create."

The idea that God has to be a zeus like character sitting in the clouds is beyond stupid. People often times 'canonize' aspects of God never mentioned in the bible. they steal from other religions and graft them onto Christianity and when those 'grafts' fail they believe the cannon of Christianity has failed. Again a lazy reason not to believe, because you have not even established or understand who/what God claims to even be. In short you or your religion of choice create a strawman and then you defeat the strawman.

God doesn't change but that does not mean our understanding of Him can't.

And yet I believe in the Q thing, and still wouldn't call that a "god".  That's an advanced alien.

A deist "god" one that creates but does not give a shit about us as individuals or even as a race, is indistinguishable form one who does not exist. 

As to the strawman complaint, how can we establish or understand something that has never shown us it exists?  It seems to me you are the one inventing a form of god, one in which you CAN believe.  I'm looking at all claimed forms of god (including this one), and saying none of them make sense.

You misunderstand.

What I am saying is if God ever become tangible He would be classified as a trans-dimensional alien being. If you think about it that is what He is. God is not nor ever claimed to be a Zeus type of figure or being. We did that by viewing Him and what He has done through the lens of sheer ignorance. As we understand more and can classify things where as before we could not, God would simply be reclassified differently.

[Drich]

Proverbs 30:5

Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.


I'm having great trouble with the assertion the bible can be the word of God and imperfect.  Smells of heresy to me.

So you do not know the meaning of the word "proverb?"

Does an "apple aday Literally keep the Doctor away?"

Or is their a truth behind healthy eating habits that has been summed up by this proverb?

Proverbs are bits of wisdom, not commands.

[Drich]

New Flash: I wasn't really speaking to you. I was answering someone else when you jumped into the conversation. If you have no interest in the subject or exploring it then why say anything at all?

Because you complete me, Drich. You had me at "monkey man". 

Well rest assured you will always be a monkey man to me.

[The Grand Nudger]

The next time my kids ask me about god I'll tell them that a true christian told me that god was a trans-dimensional alien being.  I'm sure that'll clear things up.

[Joods]

For me it's the contradictions in the buy bull along with the fact that when I was a christian and I did believe, I was continually let down time and time again. Additionally, whenever I asked a church elder a question challenging the existence of god, I was given a ton of excuses and told to "get it right" with god.

Did you ever consider that God was not a Genie? And wasn't here to grant you wishes?

If you have questions ask them here.

I never said he was a genie, but when you are a child and you are taught that god is everywhere and that he loves you, then you start thinking it's a lie when he sees you getting beat with a belt every day for seven years and he does nothing to stop it. Or better yet... when your grandfather molests you for three years and again, that magical sky daddy who you've been taught to believe can watch over you and protect you... isn't doing what everyone tells you he can do.

Yeah. Some god.

It isn't about wishes, drip. It's about the bullshit indoctrination kids are put through and then when bad things happen, god doesn't do his supposed divine thing. It casts all sorts of doubt. Naturally, asking questions about why god never got me away from any of that was something I asked time and time again, but never got an honest answer to. I finally found the answer myself when I learned that it was all bullshit.

[Crossless2.0]

Because you complete me, Drich. You had me at "monkey man". 

Well rest assured you will always be a monkey man to me.

  And you will always be the "teacher" who doesn't understand the Golden Rule to me.

[Aroura]

How do you know God is a transfer dimensional alien? Did he come from another universe to star this one?
Is his name Kolob?

Have you been talking to those pesky Mormons, Drich?