Orlando shooting/The non gun debate

[Pat Mustard]

That, too.  Of course, Drich seems to be one of those people who focuses more on the "They hate the West!" portion of what the groups do than the "They also hate each other, and kill each other!" portion.  Al-Qaeda and ISIS, despite their surface similarities, are most definitely not allies.  Anyone claiming to be acting on the behalf of both doesn't know what they're talking about, which is exactly why such claims can be safely ignored.

He also claimed allegiance to Hezbollah, which is currently in combat alongside Assad's troops in Syria ... against ISIS.

So he didn't even know basic facts about his own religion? What a murderous idiot!

[The Grand Nudger]

Find me one that does?

[Drich]

But, the war islam/isis is waging is not against that minority population, it's against all of us.

Islam isn't waging any war, but it takes a higher paygrade of braincells to realize that. For every Western victim of Islamist terrorist organisations, there are at least a hundred muslim victims. But, of course, you miss that, since you stay wilfully uninformed and ignorant.

No surprise there. You simply lump the whole religion together. But, of course, when it comes to pastors spewing their hatred, it's just a few bad apples. They're your home team after all.

So no war huh???

Maybe look up the word Jihad. Then look at how ISIS THE ISLAMIC STATE is classifying their actions against the west.

[Drich]

Your missing the point.

You are trying to use an event that has nothing to do with guns to impose your thoughts on gun legislation.

This is the very same thing the Lgbt leaders are doing, by claiming this was an attack against gay people when clearly the attacker claimed his motivations was an attack on the west for waging war on 'his people.'

This is a disgusting practice. You are changing facts to suit your own propaganda your own agenda. You are cashing in on the deaths and injury's of people who may not support or at the very least have nothing to do with your reasoning for (in this case) gun control.

How can you not see that the NRA has absolutely nothing to do with pressure cooker bombs?

Or do you not care?

Is stacking the deck in your favor (lying) considered 'moral' if your point is made and the change you want happens?

I don't need to use a single even i can point out the obvious gun related crime i don't need to point out mass shootings. 


Okay you piece of shit i am not arguing to take peoples guns away we have the second amendment. Love guns hate guns etc i don't care.
All i am fucking saying is make gun laws stricter against people who have mental ilnesses and a criminal record and prevent them from buying guns
so no one gets killed and or hurt. Don't put words into my mouth you sick son of a bitch i have family member that died he was a just a kid
on the way home from the store and unfortunately for him wrong place wrong time he got caught in a drive by and was killed. And the reason
why i stress common sense gun laws it to prevent people who have ill intentions from getting guns. I am not furthering any sort of agenda.

would it make you feel better if your family member was killed by someone driving by and tossing out an explosive devise instead of a gun?

What you do not seem to get is if someone intends to kill someone else in a big way it does not matter what they do there will be death on a massive scale. a gun is a tool. Saying guns are the only thing responsible for killing people is like saying spoons make people fat, or key boards misspell words. again all these items share one common factor. They are tools or rather extensions of individual people's will. If a fat man is hell bent on eating a whole pie he does not need a spoon to do so. like wise If I'm going to mis spell a word I don't need this key board to do it. Again the problem is with your specific world view. you do not hold individuals responsible for their actions. If you did then you would not be so foolish as to try and ban or restrict a tool, but address the bigger mental stability or even religious issue this country is facing.

[Thumpalumpacus]

He also claimed allegiance to Hezbollah, which is currently in combat alongside Assad's troops in Syria ... against ISIS.

So he didn't even know basic facts about his own religion? What a murderous idiot!

Well, neither one of those is a religion, but I get your point.

[Drich]

But, the war islam/isis is waging is not against that minority population, it's against all of us.

That's the digusting thing here. They are taking something that should be an afront to all americans and making specifically about anti gay sentiment.

How is this Not political propaganda?

If a political group is allowed to bend the facts to suit their agenda for any reason then things like truth are superseded by a "justifiable reason."

Thank goodness that Nothing in the History of man (1930's germany) has ever pointed to that sort of twisting of the truth for the sake of political propaganda has ever resulted in anything bad happening

What you're conveniently forgetting is that this guy isn't an ISIS fighter.  Remember: he claimed he was doing it for disparate groups.  Al-Qaeda and ISIS are enemies - pledging allegiance to both, as well as saying the Tsarnaev brothers were his 'homeboys' clearly indicates that he was just namedropping for the sake of it.
I mean, this guy used gay dating apps. He visited Pulse looking to hookup. It's pretty clear from his pattern of behavior that he was gay, felt regret/guilt about it due to his Muslim heritage, and hated them for making him feel a certain way.

But isn't that the core or the very definition of a "lone wolf attacker?"
Someone who is not directly or officially apart of ISIS but is willing to carry out their bidding in their name?
http://www.breitbart.com/national-securi...-s-europe/

The fact that this d-bag doesn't know the groups political stances screams all the more that his motivations were religious. Or do you think all who die in the name of ISIS can readily account all of it's political positions?

I agree, This guy probably was religious to some degree. (enough to go all in when push came to shove) had homosexual tendencies and freak out at a moment of weakness. then went over religious to compensate. IE declaring jihad, but knew it would have no religious meaning unless he was apart of an offical jihadi movement. So to cover his bases (like any stupid American would who is too lazy to research what he supposedly believes) he declares aligence to both, and as only the Koran can justify, to cover his 'sin' he had to do this big crazy gesture.

We can not over look his declarations simply because they were 1/2 assed. He was killing or striking out against the infidels of the west for the reason he stated in order to 'atone' for his sins.

Kinda can't have one without the other. even in a moderate turned extremeist 1/2 assed american way.

It's a completely different scenario than San Bernardino, where the shooter was definitely killing in the name of ISIS.

but again that is the nature of the lone wolf is it not? no cells, no structure of any kind. just a single radicalized (for whatever reason) person killing in the name of allah through ISIS or the taliban.

This guy, Mateen, could've hit any soft target.  He scoped out Downtown Disney, which has absolutely zero security, but chose Pulse instead.  Why?  Because it was an LGBT club.  So, yeah, homophobia was at the heart of the shooting.  

I guess you not aware as most in orlando are that gay days at disney (which is going on now) has thousands if not tens of thousands more gay targets...

If anyone wanted to kill at disney they do it in the morning when they open the gates, because tens of thousands of people line up and wait in the mile long/wide parking lots for shuttles with no where to run or go.

downtown disney is a stupid target as cops are everywhere because it is nothing but a series of restraunts and drinking establishments.

I think the reason this guy did not go after the larger gay target was because of the children. To go after a nigh club is to punish those actively seeking to 'sin.' Gay, because again as you pointed out he was probably tring to atone for sin.

And are you really trying to make the factual statements that:

1. This guy purposely targeted a LGBT club in order to eliminate a certain kind of people

As stated above he was trying to atone for sin. and dying a martyr waging jihad on infidels is an 'easy pass' into heaven and his 49 virgins, or maybe hell if he is gay..

2. This guy, despite being on a FBI watch list for several years before being cleared, was able to obtain a firearm with ease

watch list is not an indictment. a watch list means just that watch. Not strip a citizen of his rights and throw him in prison for doing stuff that makes people nervous.

Controversial?  You're trying to equate it with Nazi propaganda?  Really?

the Nazis did this very thing against the jews.

They took their economic situation and because their were alot of prominent jews in finance blamed the whole thing on them. there was a scrap of truth in all of thier propaganda just like their is a scrap of truth in all of this. In that the jews were in finance and did infact have to levi fines and taxes against germany for reperations the allies charged for WW1. Germany used a 1/2 truth to unite their country for the greater good and continued this 'lying for the greater good campain' until the were putting literal train loads of jews into ovens.

A lie for the 'greater good' ALWAYS winds up costing the lier his soul in the end. because the 'greater good' never is quenched. This is the beginning of a series of small steps that will take this country down a very slippery slope if we let it.

[Drich]

ah, no.. we are talking about the police chief stabbed in his home (in FRANCE)

So this is non-gun debate about a mass shooting. Lets talk about world war 2 without mentioning the Nazis.

and we can talk about the member of the british parlment who was also shot in killed in a no gun country... so how are all those rules working out for ya?

Again, spoons don't make people fat!

[Drich]

Actually..I think that it indicates ignorance.

That, too.  Of course, Drich seems to be one of those people who focuses more on the "They hate the West!" portion of what the groups do than the "They also hate each other, and kill each other!" portion.  Al-Qaeda and ISIS, despite their surface similarities, are most definitely not allies.  Anyone claiming to be acting on the behalf of both doesn't know what they're talking about, which is exactly why such claims can be safely ignored.

Their People tainted by the west...

[The Grand Nudger]

I'm not sure why you have any gripe against the nazis..were their actions any different than how your god handles the disease of sin?

[Drich]

But, the war islam/isis is waging is not against that minority population, it's against all of us.

Islam isn't waging any war, but it takes a higher paygrade of braincells to realize that. For every Western victim of Islamist terrorist organisations, there are at least a hundred muslim victims. But, of course, you miss that, since you stay wilfully uninformed and ignorant.

No surprise there. You simply lump the whole religion together. But, of course, when it comes to pastors spewing their hatred, it's just a few bad apples. They're your home team after all.

My point is unles THEY (moderate Islam) speaks out against the extremeists then it is not I who lumps them together, but they who condone such actions.