Do Christians worship a suicide victim?

[Drich]

In my experience Christians tend to state that their "Jesus" chose to allow the crusifiction and had the power to stop it?

Is that suicide or delusion? 

People do envoke suicide by willfully making a sudden threatening move when in the sights of police marksmen to knowingly end their own life ....

Personally I find that a cowards way out, as they could have ended their own life without involving others .... Apparently this "Jesus" character could have saved his own life with Woo as some other suicide victims could have saved their own life by not making a sudden move ....

Dog.

is jumping on a grenade to save rest of your squad suicide?

what about pushing your child out from in front of a bus wen you know the bus will hit you?

There is an element in self sacrifice that is not present in suicide. That's dying so someone else could live.

Christ died so that you may have eternal life. So not a suicide, but self sacrifice.

[Ignorant]

In my experience Christians tend to state that their "Jesus" chose to allow the crusifiction and had the power to stop it? [1]

Is that suicide or delusion? [2]

People do envoke suicide by willfully making a sudden threatening move when in the sights of police marksmen to knowingly end their own life .... 

Personally I find that a cowards way out, as they could have ended their own life without involving others .... [3] Apparently this "Jesus" character could have saved his own life with Woo as some other suicide victims could have saved their own life by not making a sudden move .... [4]

Dog.

1) Yes. Mt 16:22-23; Mt 26:51-54 and other related texts expressing similar ideas.

2) Obviously, I think neither is the case. There is at least the additional option of "sacrifice" to bring about some effect. No one takes his life, Jesus lays it down freely (Jn 10:18).

3) That's fair enough, but the others involved might reveal something about our reality (clearly, you don't think any of it reveals anything at all, much less about reality, so I realize this point won't mean much to you).

4) Sure. The narrative, instead, tells us that he lays down his own life. He could have snapped his fingers and all was forgiven. He could have farted out a ham sandwich as the way to reconcile the world to God. Instead, he went with torture and execution at the hands of the Romans at the behest of the Jewish authorities. He chose this way to communicate something to us about ourselves and about God.

[Thomas Kelly252525]

madog, you may look at my answers above.

I read your first question and decided I will read no more ..... You are just a pest 

madog,

You may think that if you say Jesus committed suicide then you have the burden of proof and you may be questioned to show how you think it's true.

Do you think that my questions to you were beyond your ability to answer ?

[emjay]

One thing that has always bugged me about this is that his supposed last words: 'Father, forgive them for they know not what they do' just sound like gloating to me... not an act of kindness but one last act of pride... one last fuck you. He didn't need to say it out loud unless it was more about being heard than asking God to forgive them.

[vorlon13]

If God was testing Jesus, he should have been able to note the kid was willing, and been satisfied with that.

[madog]

{1) is jumping on a grenade to save rest of your squad suicide?

what about pushing your child out from in front of a bus wen you know the bus will hit you?

{2} There is an element in self sacrifice that is not present in suicide. That's dying so someone else could live.

{3) Christ died so that you may have eternal life. So not a suicide, but self sacrifice.

{1} Yes to both of your examples if the person devised the event .... or allowed themselves to get into the position were sacrifice/suicide was required. when they could have avoided the event ....

{2} which I don't see present in the "Jesus" fiction ... see {1} above

{3} The fictitious character committed suicide so I would worship his father (himself) not a selfless act as there were strings attached ... A selfless act would be giving everyone eternal life with no strings attached ... 

And as a bonus this fictitious character fucked up a good portion of the world and turned some intelligent beings into Woo warriors 

---

In my experience Christians tend to state that their "Jesus" chose to allow the crusifiction and had the power to stop it? [1]

Is that suicide or delusion? [2]

People do envoke suicide by willfully making a sudden threatening move when in the sights of police marksmen to knowingly end their own life .... 

Personally I find that a cowards way out, as they could have ended their own life without involving others .... [3] Apparently this "Jesus" character could have saved his own life with Woo as some other suicide victims could have saved their own life by not making a sudden move .... [4]

Dog.

1) Yes. Mt 16:22-23; Mt 26:51-54 and other related texts expressing similar ideas.

2) Obviously, I think neither is the case. There is at least the additional option of "sacrifice" to bring about some effect. No one takes his life, Jesus lays it down freely (Jn 10:18).

3) That's fair enough, but the others involved might reveal something about our reality (clearly, you don't think any of it reveals anything at all, much less about reality, so I realize this point won't mean much to you).

4) Sure. The narrative, instead, tells us that he lays down his own life. He could have snapped his fingers and all was forgiven. He could have farted out a ham sandwich as the way to reconcile the world to God. Instead, he went with torture and execution at the hands of the Romans at the behest of the Jewish authorities. He chose this way to communicate something to us about ourselves and about God.

Note Bit disappointed with you that you are using what I stated as man made evidence (the bible) after getting me to apologize to you for stating that 

{2} Sacrifice in my opinion is to give something up without strings attached ... 

{3} Bit pompous and nonsensical, not going to answer without a better attempt at making your point ....

{4} and then failed to have it properly documented so it could be consistently communicated 

---

I read your first question and decided I will read no more ..... You are just a pest 

 

Do you think that my questions to you were beyond your ability to answer ?

Not interested in what you have to say .... I am not comfortable answer babbling rhetoric 

[Minimalist]

Christ died so that you may have eternal life. So not a suicide, but self sacrifice.

Well he fucked that up.

[Ignorant]

Note Bit disappointed with you that you are using what I stated as man made evidence (the bible) after getting me to apologize to you for stating that  : [1] 

{2} Sacrifice in my opinion is to give something up without strings attached ... [2]

{3} Bit pompous and nonsensical, not going to answer without a better attempt at making your point .... [3]

{4} and then failed to have it properly documented so it could be consistently communicated  : [4] 

1) You might be thinking of someone else, as that was my first post in this thread. Otherwise, I don't know what you mean.

2) 

 =)

3) Wasn't trying to make a point really, besides recognizing your assessment as a fair one and that there are other fair ones as well.

4) Right, that message about God's accompanying us through our lives of suffering ultimately to bring us to an everlasting life of joy has really been inconsistent =). Was it properly documented? Maybe yes maybe no. Somehow people keep getting the message.

[madog]

1) You might be thinking of someone else, as that was my first post in this thread. Otherwise, I don't know what you mean.

2)  

3) Wasn't trying to make a point really, besides recognizing your assessment as a fair one and that there are other fair ones as well.

4) Right, that message about God's accompanying us through our lives of suffering ultimately to bring us to an everlasting life of joy has really been inconsistent =). Was it properly documented? Maybe yes maybe no. Somehow people keep getting the message.

{1) Nope, I made the statement about Christians using man made statements in another thread and as a general statement, you said you never do ... I'll look it up if it bothers you 

{2) yes I said it was my opinion ....

{3} ?

{4} Which ones are getting the correct answer? your religion/sect or your version? Really clear message .... Maybe slitting his own throat after spending time writing stuff down and making sure it was safely passed on might have worked better?

[Thomas Kelly252525]

{1) is jumping on a grenade to save rest of your squad suicide?

what about pushing your child out from in front of a bus wen you know the bus will hit you?

{2} There is an element in self sacrifice that is not present in suicide. That's dying so someone else could live.

{3) Christ died so that you may have eternal life. So not a suicide, but self sacrifice.

{1} Yes to both of your examples if the person devised the event .... or allowed themselves to get into the position were sacrifice/suicide was required. when they could have avoided the event ....

{2} which I don't see present in the "Jesus" fiction ... see {1} above

{3} The fictitious character committed suicide so I would worship his father (himself) not a selfless act as there were strings attached ... A selfless act would be giving everyone eternal life with no strings attached ... 

And as a bonus this fictitious character fucked up a good portion of the world and turned some intelligent beings into Woo warriors 

---

1) Yes. Mt 16:22-23; Mt 26:51-54 and other related texts expressing similar ideas.

2) Obviously, I think neither is the case. There is at least the additional option of "sacrifice" to bring about some effect. No one takes his life, Jesus lays it down freely (Jn 10:18).

3) That's fair enough, but the others involved might reveal something about our reality (clearly, you don't think any of it reveals anything at all, much less about reality, so I realize this point won't mean much to you).

4) Sure. The narrative, instead, tells us that he lays down his own life. He could have snapped his fingers and all was forgiven. He could have farted out a ham sandwich as the way to reconcile the world to God. Instead, he went with torture and execution at the hands of the Romans at the behest of the Jewish authorities. He chose this way to communicate something to us about ourselves and about God.

Note Bit disappointed with you that you are using what I stated as man made evidence (the bible) after getting me to apologize to you for stating that 

{2} Sacrifice in my opinion is to give something up without strings attached ... 

{3} Bit pompous and nonsensical, not going to answer without a better attempt at making your point ....

{4} and then failed to have it properly documented so it could be consistently communicated 

---

 

Do you think that my questions to you were beyond your ability to answer ?

Not interested in what you have to say .... I am not comfortable answer babbling rhetoric 

madog,

You may think it appears some of what I said to you is missing from above, about burden of proof in relation to your behaviour.

What may you think proves that I used babbling rhetoric ?

You may think that my questions were too high a level for you.

If you continue like you have been doing, I may choose to not answer you, not because of being annoyed but because I don't think it would be to our advantage.