Are the churches using atheists to gain more converts?

[Homeless Nutter]

[...]
I don't mind joining a debate on secular vs non secular ... maybe learning and adding my opinions BUT I SIMPLY STATED THE FACT THAT IRELAND IS SECULAR   which it is, no point was being made ...

My point, the entire time was that even though US may appear overly religious, it is still a secular country and its political structure - while allowing for multiculturalism and freedom of religion - prevents direct influence of religious organizations on secular government, unlike many nominally secular countries in Europe, where religious zealots are free to do what they want.

I'm not trying to draw you into an argument. Just presenting a point of view.

[madog]

[...]
I don't mind joining a debate on secular vs non secular ... maybe learning and adding my opinions BUT I SIMPLY STATED THE FACT THAT IRELAND IS SECULAR   which it is, no point was being made ...

My point, the entire time was that even though US may appear overly religious, it is still a secular country and its political structure - while allowing for multiculturalism and freedom of religion - prevents direct influence of religious organizations on secular government, unlike many nominally secular countries in Europe, where religious zealots are free to do what they want.

I'm not trying to draw you into an argument. Just presenting a point of view.

I haven't argued against that, but you used Ireland as an example of a non secular state .... I just pointed that out .... I made no argument that that had any influence other than it wasn't a good example ....

[Homeless Nutter]

I haven't argued against that, but you used Ireland as an example of a non secular state .... I just pointed that out .... I made no argument that that had any influence other than it wasn't a good example ....

How is it not a good example? A place where one religion - Catholicism - was able to prevent people from getting a divorce - as late as 1995? Ireland, until very recently, was a perfect example of a de facto theocracy. And it still is far less secular, than USA.

[madog]

I haven't argued against that, but you used Ireland as an example of a non secular state .... I just pointed that out .... I made no argument that that had any influence other than it wasn't a good example ....

How is it not a good example? A place where one religion - Catholicism - was able to prevent people from getting a divorce - as late as 1995? Ireland, until very recently, was a perfect example of a de facto theocracy. And it still is far less secular, than USA.

I am not nor did I say it was a bad example of theocracy, I said it was a bad example to show non secular states are wore than secular ...

[Homeless Nutter]

I am not nor did I say it was a bad example of theocracy, I said it was a bad example to show non secular states are wore than secular ...

Fine, I didn't know that's what you were talking about. I gave Ireland (as well as other nominally secular countries) as an example of a country, where laws are directly controlled by religion, as opposed to USA, where separation of church and state largely prevents such control.

[Aoi Magi]

Simply attaching the term 'secular' to a place doesn't make it secular unless the laws support it. But with the increased information exchange and ease and availability knowledge it is becoming fairly difficult for religious bigots to not get called out on their bullshit, and thus they are indeed dying out. However, my fear is that on many instances religion isn't just disappering but it's being replaced with newage woo, which is just as dangerous.

[robvalue]

Is it really as dangerous? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just interested in why you think that.

Doesn't it have a lot less bigotry and violent dogma attached? I'm sure it can still be just as anti-science/reality.

Out of the people I've met in the UK, which is admittedly a very small proportion, only about 10-20% I'd say have gone on about new age shit. So I hope that's representative.