Why do you actually believe in God?

[RozKek]

How can you praise a single person for a single act without belief in free-will though?

What are you praising if they had no choice in the matter?

What are you actually respecting?

It's just a reaction, probably has evolutionary advantages.

[RozKek]

Because some people are more awesome than others.

Awesome for what? You don't believe in free-will or merit type value. And are they objectively more awesome or is this a subjective awesome to you? And if it's the latter, what is the belief based upon?

One perceiving someone else as awesome is still just reactions in the brain and some things someone does simply triggers those reactions in another individual.

[RozKek]

Awesomeness is subjective

And you simple measure it by impulse you have no control over?

Yes.

[RozKek]

Mystic be like:
"THEY SEE ME TROLLIN' ... THEY HATIN'..."

---

Enjoy your weed dude. Come back when you actually give a f**k about reality.

Why would you be angry at me if you don't believe I had any free-will in all this?

You triggered a reaction in his brain making him angry.

@All sorry for responding in multiple posts, I'm in a train and it's kind of a pain to quote on mobiles. I'll just wait until I come home :p

[RozKek]

---

 @Veritas_Vincint 

The issue is any argument is going to have some properly basic premises. For example, if you argue from objective morality, then it won't work if people don't accept there is such thing as truly right or truly wrong and is not just subjective taste like what food you like or don't like.

You were going so far as to deny free-will, but at the same time, you were angry with me. I honestly believe you are dishonest about that.  If you truly didn't believe in free-will, you would not be reacting the way you are reacting.

I wanted to have a honest discussion about the fact we do believe there is exact (objective) value to who we are, we act upon that, and believed in that since childhood till now.  It's our nature.

However I do realize that would not prove it to be there, it would just prove humans naturally believe in that.

Do actually realize you know there is exact value to who you are, that it requires perception, and that perception has to be perfect judge through perfect standards, this requires a level of self-honesty that I honestly don't believe people over all here have.

Anything can be denied right? Sure. Deny free-will even...even though you function with belief in it. The same is true, you don't believe imperfect perception can see truly who you are neither do you believe you are that perception, so what maintains your value.

What makes you inherit your action, what is keeping score of your deeds?

Yes we can say this all unproven, but,  I've reflected over this issue with myself....surely some observer does see me,  something maintains my identity from baby till now.....why am I the same person...you may say we aren't the same person but when you appreciate your mom, when you have kids, etc, you will see you never assume they are a person separate from that no matter how much they changed.

The fact is we can say "Yes humans believe in these things naturally but they can't be justified in them...", or we can say "perhaps they can be justified in them, perhaps they can know, the only question is do I personally know these things to be true?"

You can all together skip the step of "how would I know" to "Do I know?". And if you do know, then it's good question to ask, how do you know...as that would perhaps unveil you to the truth.

---

The difference here is, he denies free will and has lots of evidence to back it up. The lack of free will nullifies all religions that has to do with worship, good and bad deeds.

[Veritas_Vincit]

If you truly didn't believe in free-will, you would not be reacting the way you are reacting.

Then you don't get it - if there is no free will then my reaction is ultimately just happening, whatever it is.

I wanted to have a honest discussion about the fact we do believe there is exact (objective) value to who we are, we act upon that, and believed in that since childhood till now.  It's our nature.

That's not a fact, you just asserted it without actually demonstrating it. Several people pointed out that it's not true for them so you bald assertion that we all do this is false.

However I do realize that would not prove it to be there, it would just prove humans naturally believe in that.

Merely discussing it wouldn't prove anything - you are the one asserting it, so until you prove that it is the case, as far as the discussion goes, it isn't.

Do actually realize you know there is exact value to who you are, that it requires perception, and that perception has to be perfect judge through perfect standards, this requires a level of self-honesty that I honestly don't believe people over all here have.

You are the one being dishonest by trying to make out like we are being dishonest for not believing you - so you can shove that up your mystical arse for a start. All you have done is state some things and say that they are true, without giving anything to back it up, hence nobody believes what you say is true.

Anything can be denied right? Sure. Deny free-will even...even though you function with belief in it. The same is true, you don't believe imperfect perception can see truly who you are neither do you believe you are that perception, so what maintains your value.

Now you're just rambling...

What makes you inherit your action, what is keeping score of your deeds?

Nothing, and no-one.

Yes we can say this all unproven, but,  I've reflected over this issue with myself....surely some observer does see me,  something maintains my identity from baby till now.....why am I the same person...you may say we aren't the same person but when you appreciate your mom, when you have kids, etc, you will see you never assume they are a person separate from that no matter how much they changed.

The fact is we can say "Yes humans believe in these things naturally but they can't be justified in them...", or we can say "perhaps they can be justified in them, perhaps they can know, the only question is do I personally know these things to be true?"

You can all together skip the step of "how would I know" to "Do I know?". And if you do know, then it's good question to ask, how do you know...as that would perhaps unveil you to the truth.

The rest of this is just babble mate and your final sentence where you say "We can skip the step of "how would I know" to "Do I know" sums up why nobody should believe a word you say - you have NOTHING to back up anything you say and you don't even think that's a problem.

If you can't explain the how or the why, and you just want people to believe on blind faith, then you are gullible and should go take a course in critical thinking, because you have no business telling anyone else that they should believe any of this unsubstantiated woo.

[The Grand Nudger]

Stop, Mystic, your argument is trash regardless of what anyone takes to be "properly basic principles".  I can't do what you say I can.  End of.

This goes nowhere, it comes from nowhere, and it's true regardless of what else may or may not be true, so there's point in blowing your load about value, objective..subjective, or otherwise.  

I.....don't....have....magic....eyes.  They do not, and cannot, see what yours see.  Why would you even begin to doubt it when I tell you?  You don;t even know what -color- my eyes are.  If I told you that they were hazel would you call me a liar there as well?

.....jesus christ, talk about an epic fail, and not at apologetics, at the simple task of being a human being.  Is this what islam does to people?

Allah, god, "whatever" - for all the world..in your comments, appears to be a word you use to bicker with people over some other thing. It has nothing to do with the divine, or what we can or can't see.

[Sheed1980]

Through the name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful, indeed we have given you the Abundance. So connect to your Lord and sacrifice. Indeed it is your enemy who is cut off.
-Suratal Kawthar

Fuckin what?

Alhamdulillah brother.

[The Grand Nudger]

Is this the part where you lock hands and form Voltron? Will -that- give me superpowers?

[Veritas_Vincit]

Well all we've had from Sheed is a copy & paste of the entire e-book of Islam for Dummies, which no one is going to read...