To those who believe Bible is not literal...

[fr0d0]

Who are you talking to anna? I assume either way all the time. It's how the xtian bible directs us to be: to question our faith, because without questioning your faith is weak. I never "absolutely assume" as that would be illogical. For most of my life I've not believed in God. I've believed, then chosen not to, then chosen to again. My family aren't religious. I had very little exposure, ever. I went and found out for myself, and rationalised my position.

[chatpilot]

I think there is a God therefore there is. That in and of itself is a "logical" explanation of what Christians believe.

[Watson]

Why'd you pick that part of my post out to respond to, Min? Wasn't there plenty of 'pseudo-philisophical bullshit' you could have targeted above it? Who's the cherry-picker now?

[Entropist]

As for why faith is necessary at all, allow me to demonstrate; when you love someone, and they love you, you trust and believe them when they say and do things to that affect.

...they don't need to give you proof; it is enough that they love you and that they mean it when they say it.

That is faith, and why it is necessary, especially between humanity and a being like God.

But the difference is there is an actual two-way symmetrical relationship between two people who love one another. I and my partner exist, of that I am quite certain. We talk to one another every day-- and when I say "we talk" that means using the exact same methods of communication (not only words and deeds, but tone of voice, body language, physical contact).

And the relationship is symmetrical insofar as we treat one another as equals and with respect. While we do not demand evidence from one another, either of us know the evidence is there, and can be seen both to ourselves and (within limits of decency!) to others. We are both in possession of such evidence because of our daily experience with one another directly, without the need for a book or any other external source explaining to me or anyone else that she loves me.

And that fact that she really exists is a somewhat important point too, I'd venture to guess.

[Watson]

You missed the point, Entropist. All you did was describe your own faith in her in a very roundabout way.

[Entropist]

You missed the point, Entropist. All you did was describe your own faith in her in a very roundabout way.

I'm not going to divulge the intimate specifics of my relationship with my girlfriend to you, and especially on a public forum.

[Watson]

I didn't ask you to. I merely stated that what you are refering to as personal experiences with her are valid from a faith-based standpoint- unless, of course, personal experiences still aren't valid as evidence for anything. Eh?

[Entropist]

I didn't ask you to. I merely stated that what you are refering to as personal experiences with her are valid from a faith-based standpoint- unless, of course, personal experiences still aren't valid as evidence for anything. Eh?

I'm not clear as to what you are referring what you say "valid from a faith-based standpoint." However, I've never asserted that personal experiences per se are not valid (I've had plenty personal experiences that have shaped me in many different areas of my life, as anyone else).

Personal experiences certainly have a stronger impact for oneself than any objective proof. We are not computers. But also, man cannot live by personal experience alone (or if they do, it is not well or for very long!-- they either end up dead or in an insane asylum).

[chatpilot]

Personal experience in religion in my opinion is not a valid method of confirming the falsity or veracity of ones religious beliefs. Emotions when applied together with cultural beliefs and religious superstitions can cloud the mind and easily lead one into irrational and illogical thinking. As in love, when someone is in love with someone else if a person gets his "feelings" hurt he will most likely forgive his other half for almost any offense in order not to lose her/him. No matter how harmful the relationship may be he continues to forgive offense after offense because his reasoning is clouded by his emotions.

Many other religious practitioners of many other faiths that are non Christian claim to have experiences of a divine nature. I think that experiences within a religious context have the same effect no matter what religion you belong to, and in this context cannot be trusted.

[annatar]

Maybe God is communicating in other ways, as well, anna and you simply do not see them. Have you ever considered that possibility? That God is speaking to you, but that you just aren't listening?

As for why faith is necessary at all, allow me to demonstrate; when you love someone, and they love you, you trust and believe them when they say and do things to that affect. When things between you and a lover or loved one are tough and that person says "It's going to be okay", the ultimate show of your love for them is faith in what they have just said. If you truly believe them when they say "It's going to be okay", they don't need to give you proof; it is enough that they love you and that they mean it when they say it.

That is faith, and why it is necessary, especially between humanity and a being like God.

Isnt that funny how you and I can communicate so easily but we cant do it with god.
You know he is all powerful. He can make a simple phone call. Why should I look for answers? He can tell me all the answers! I am fallible after all.. And your "love" analogy is just bullshit.
No one would ever torture someone just becosue he/she didn't love him back. unless he is a psychopath.. And if things are bad between you and your lover, you can guess that it will be okay based on the fact that you love each other. And this kind of faith isn't good either. Becouse you don't have any clue whether it will be okay or not. If you have just faith in something and not evidence. That means it is unlikely.
Faith is not rational! And your only evidence in that issue "bible says so". I can find another evidences such as "quran says so" or "book of mormon says so". They have all same claim. Why you have faith in christianity and not hinduism? Faith is necessary to believe in christianity(or any other religion), becouse there is no evidence! Same as FSM. Having faith in FSM does not make it real!

Who are you talking to anna? I assume either way all the time. It's how the xtian bible directs us to be: to question our faith, because without questioning your faith is weak. I never "absolutely assume" as that would be illogical. For most of my life I've not believed in God. I've believed, then chosen not to, then chosen to again. My family aren't religious. I had very little exposure, ever. I went and found out for myself, and rationalised my position.

I was talking to christians in general. And you included of course.. Are you saying that bible directs you to question your faith??? I am sorry but its just stupid. Faith is not something to be questioned. Thats why you call it faith! You believe something without any evidence. This is faith! As I said before faith is not a rational thing. And bible can't ask for both questioning your beliefs and having faith. These two contradicts with each other...
Why god hiding and making look like he doesn't exists and still he wants us to believe he is exists? We are not playing hide and seek!