Atheism and Theism Comparison

[The Joker]

I'm saying that it seems impossible to tell whether it was created by an intelligence or not, by anyone. Not that I just happen to not have this information. We're trapped inside the thing we wish to study, and we have no control subject. Attempts to draw conclusions from reality itself from the contents of the same reality is the fallacy of composition; it doesn't follow.

I lack belief in a creator because I see no evidence of one. It seems to be the case that there couldn't even be evidence of one. But I'm always open to being convinced otherwise.

The nearest I could say is if a bunch of stuff started happening which looked very much like direct intervention from an outside agent, that would be potential evidence. But still, it's difficult to form a testable hypothesis.

More importantly, I don't care if something created this reality, or why, beyond simple curiosity.

I'm saying that it seems impossible to tell whether it was created by an intelligence or not, by anyone. Not that I just happen to not have this information. We're trapped inside the thing we wish to study, and we have no control subject. Attempts to draw conclusions from reality itself from the contents of the same reality is the fallacy of composition; it doesn't follow.

Why do you not care if something created this reality, or why, beyond simple curiosity?

But we could work this out if we know if we got here by an accident or Created by God and I don't see a middle ground in this like not making a judgement upon the two and accepting neither because that would be being ignorant.

Ok. I lack belief that you have intelligence.

[Whateverist]

There are theists who accept evolution and atheists who don't.

Is it intelligent for an atheist to reject naturalistic evolution that everything in the universe came by chance and evolved from matter? 

Of more relevance you should ask:  is it intelligent for anyone to reject naturalism and evolution?  The answer is no.

[GUBU]

Yeah, if for instance God of Bible was real then we would see angels flying around; bad people like child molesters punished by thunders from heaven, diseases or maybe sudden death; we would see good people being rewarded and healed by praying and not the other way around like it is.

If the god of the bible were real, then child molesters would be good people, as long as they paid dowry to the girl's father.

[robvalue]

Joker:

I don't care because it makes no difference to anything.

Yes, it was created or it was not. But I'm not required to believe one or the other. I can reserve judgement until such time as there's sufficient evidence to decide one way or the other. If you feel compelled to believe one or the other, that's up to you.

If you think you already have enough evidence, then it's perfectly reasonable to assume you've made a decision. I don't consider that I have. If you think that makes me ignorant, then I don't care. I call it intellectually honest.

You lack belief that I have intelligence? Okay. Random insults?

[robvalue]

I do positively believe that the cartoon characters protrayed in books such as the bible do not exist, if that helps.

[Whateverist]

I don't know what God is, as you haven't defined it.

I didn't say that at all, but yes, it appears we cannot know whether this reality was created by an intelligence or was not.

I will define God but tell me, do you lack belief in God because you don't know whether this reality was created by an intelligence or was not?

Parsimony.  I lack belief in your fanciful fairy tale for the same reason we both lack belief in all the others.  Attributing origins to magic is not an intellectually satisfying sort of explanation.  But if it works for you, then any of the fairy tales from any time or place in history will do as well as any other.

[The Joker]

You lack belief that I have intelligence? Okay. Random insults?

How is it an insult to lack belief that you have intelligence?

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Parsimony.  I lack belief in your fanciful fairy tale for the same reason we both lack belief in all the others.  Attributing origins to magic is not an intellectually satisfying sort of explanation.  But if it works for you, then any of the fairy tales from any time or place in history will do as well as any other.

Same here, I lack belief that you have intelligence.

[robvalue]

I was asking if it was an insult, because I don't understand why you said it.

Oh, people who disagree with you are stupid? That's the clear implication. If you mean something else, please tell us.

[Whateverist]

I'm saying that it seems impossible to tell whether it was created by an intelligence or not, by anyone. 

Moreover even if some stuff was created by an intelligence we'd still be left to explain where that intelligence came from.  Are we supposing that we as agents can only have come about as the creation of a greater intelligence?  If so, then that greater intelligence can only have come about through the creation of a still greater intelligence ad infinitum.  This just isn't a proper way to explain anything, as we both know but this joker seems not to.

[The Joker]

I was asking if it was an insult, because I don't understand why you said it.

Oh, people who disagree with you are stupid? That's the clear implication. If you mean something else, please tell us.

Why would you think that? Is my reasoning not sound? Am I not allowed to have a lack of belief in something just as you lack belief in God?  Am I my not allowed to submit the evidence, or lack therefore regarding your intelligence, to my subjective preferences just as you subject evidence for God to your subjective preferences and arrive at your own conclusion? I am simply using a procedure that you yourself employ.  Is that wrong?