Advice needed

[MikeGian1984]

Hi Everyone
Recently my 22 year old sister met a guy who is a member of the local church. My family and I are Atheists and my sister always said she would never  go to church. So over a few months she began to go and for a few weeks I did not see her. When she came back she began to preach to all of us, she also said she could not live in a house where god was not worshiped. She prays every morning and every sunday she helps the church with some cooking and other duties. She got rid of all her friends because they are atheists to.
I became angry so I went down to the church and spoke with the pastor. It got a little heated when I told him he had brainwashed my sister. He told me that atheists go to hell and to enjoy my life on this earth because the after life for me wont be pleasant. He said I walk on the ground created by god and I needed to respect and worship him.
Anyways a long story short, I havent seen my sister for 2 months because she moved  into a commune and refuses to talk with us.

I was just wondering if anyone else has experienced this sort of thing and any advice to get my sister back. I have seen videos of this pastors service and he shouts and music is played and puts his hand on peoples head and all sorts of things. Are people that easily fooled?

thanks!
Mike

[vorlon13]

Welcome.

How about an intro post in the intro post area ?

[account_inactive]

Welcome.

How about an intro post in the intro post area ?

Damn it, that's my line!

Anyway, welcome to the forums and all.

[robvalue]

Oh no, I'm really sorry to hear that How utterly horrible for you.

I haven't had any experience quite like this, although... I've known something similar. Yes, some people are very suggestable. Very easily fooled and manipulated. I've seen it.

My advice is that confrontation does not work. Demands do not work. When someone changes, the best course of action is to try and be as understanding as possible, and to let them know you're there for them. Tell them you still care for them, whatever choices they make. Let them know you're there, if they want to talk.

In this way, they will come to you when they are ready and reach common ground. This has worked for me before. Be honest, but not intrusive. Express concern, but do not impose judgement or action. I have got people back this way from the precipice.

It's possible that even with this gentle approach, they won't return to you. And that is always a tragedy. It's happened to me before several times. I've lost people. But in such cases, I genuinely think there was nothing for it and a harsher approach would have failed even harder and sooner. Sometimes I think I have been too harsh and should have followed my own advice, and may have added to a rift. I regret that, and wished I'd taken a softer tone.

However, if someone is actively behaving badly such as coming into your house and preaching, you have every right to stand up to that. You could politely ask that she respect your (lack of) beliefs, as you respect hers. If she won't do so, then she is actively deciding to widen this rift and is choosing the issue over you. If that is the case, you don't matter much to her, which is again incredibly sad. I hope it would never come to that. But pressing the issue too hard, on either side, is more likely to make such a choice happen.

[abaris]

I was just wondering if anyone else has experienced this sort of thing and any advice to get my sister back. I have seen videos of this pastors service and he shouts and music is played and puts his hand on peoples head and all sorts of things. Are people that easily fooled?

thanks!
Mike

I don't know where you're coming from, but this sounds an awful like a full blown cult. Don't do anything on your own, since with indoctrinated people you could do more harm than good and push you sister even further away.

There are non profit organisations acting as advisors for families who lost a member to a cult. Just look for them on the internet and see who's close to your home. In any case, seek professional advice before doing anything.

[robvalue]

Christianity is a cult. A death cult. The only difference is that it has varying degrees of intensity across its domain, and has become socially acceptable. Mind raping children into the cult is also, alarmingly, acceptable.

[pocaracas]

Hi Everyone
Recently my 22 year old sister met a guy who is a member of the local church. My family and I are Atheists and my sister always said she would never  go to church. So over a few months she began to go and for a few weeks I did not see her. When she came back she began to preach to all of us, she also said she could not live in a house where god was not worshiped. She prays every morning and every sunday she helps the church with some cooking and other duties. She got rid of all her friends because they are atheists to.
I became angry so I went down to the church and spoke with the pastor. It got a little heated when I told him he had brainwashed my sister. He told me that atheists go to hell and to enjoy my life on this earth because the after life for me wont be pleasant. He said I walk on the ground created by god and I needed to respect and worship him.
Anyways a long story short, I havent seen my sister for 2 months because she moved  into a commune and refuses to talk with us.

I was just wondering if anyone else has experienced this sort of thing and any advice to get my sister back. I have seen videos of this pastors service and he shouts and music is played and puts his hand on peoples head and all sorts of things. Are people that easily fooled?

thanks!
Mike

Looks like a lost soul that got grabbed by the first taker.
You say you're in an atheist household, so I guess she was never that much exposed to the tricks used by believers to convince people.... your parents just didn't steer her in any way, right?
That results in a blank slate... ready for what you have sadly witnessed.

I'm not sure there's much you can do, beyond what Rob has already advised.
If she will read anything besides the bible, now... try this: Michael Shermer's The Believing Brain.
It's about how our brains tend to work and why they tend to believe certain erroneous things... like religion, economy, politics...
Maybe you can try to make her understand how some things highlighted in that book happened to her, since she met that friend of hers and joined the church...

But, of course, she won't see it that way... they never do.
The brain means nothing to them... only the soul matters... and that is different from the brain... and stupid ensues... ooops sorry!
But it's the way they see it, the brain stores memories and handles biological functions... but the soul is what makes your choices, handles your thoughts, stuff like that... yeah, right!

If you enter some sort of theological debate, remain calm and defend a position on "intellectual honesty", when she starts going for god-of-the-gaps style argumentation - like the beginning of the universe, or how life got started on this planet... and tell her to go to the actual sources and don't trust other people when they mention non-biblical accounts of Jesus (google Josephus on that and notice how he only mentions christians and their belief).
Have her learn to distinguish belief from religion; learn to distinguish a psychological effect from reality.... learn to be honest with herself...
It's a sad thing to see from the outside of that deluded state... but they can't see it as deluded and become angry and closed up to any reasoning if you suggest there's something wrong with them...
So, my suggestion is: talk to her always in the form of questions. "Why do you say this?" "where did that information come from?" "how can anyone know that?" "what do you think is more likely? Nature or Magic?" (no, don't ask this one...) "there is such a thing as circular reasoning, you know that, right?"; "have you ever learned about how the bible was written? - present Bart Ehrman to her, he's the Professor of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill... that should carry some weight for someone who likes their bible too much.

[robvalue]

Good point. Stay calm, and use the Socratic method. But enforced debates don't tend to work, she has to be willing.

[brewer]

If she is not harming herself or others, they (the church) is not harming her and she is happy, from my POV you're gonna have to let it go. You don't get to force her not to believe any more than she gets to force you to believe. 

Who knows, the church and their community may be filling a need that she was missing. Kind of sad but it may be true. Would you say that she was in a place that would make her susceptible to their sales pitch?

[Alex K]

If she is not harming herself or others, they (the church) is not harming her and she is happy, from my POV you're gonna have to let it go. You don't get to force her not to believe any more than she gets to force you to believe. 

Who knows, the church and their community may be filling a need that she was missing. Kind of sad but it may be true. Would you say that she was in a place that would make her susceptible to their sales pitch?

Sorry, but I don't share your happily libertarian attitude towards family-destroying cults.

If they practise scientology-style disconnection, and it sounds that way, it's a case for professionals who know how cults work. Yes, they probably fill a need of hers, but exploiting said need as a vulerability to psychologically isolate and enslave people is not cool, don't you think?