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Why Can't Anything Travel Faster than Light?
#41
RE: Why Can't Anything Travel Faster than Light?
(12th December 2016, 20:09)Stimbo Wrote: Thank you Smile. Probably not necessary, but just to hammer this home: another way to picture the difference is to imagine being in freefall on the ISS. You are weightless, so you float around the cabin. But smacking into the bulkhead is the moment you become aware of your mass.

And that is the moment I become aware that I have a nervous system while the bulkhead does not.

(12th December 2016, 11:48)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(12th December 2016, 09:33)Rhondazvous Wrote: [...] since in a vacuum where there is no gravity

Just wanted to say, there is indeed gravity in a vacuum; that's why the Earth orbits the Sun, why galaxies coalesced, etc.
Touché since I am at fault for not making myself clear. By vacuum I mean outside the gravitational pull of any other object. In practice it may not be possible to be in such a place, but I'm speaking theoretically/hypothetically/rhetorically.
I may defend your right to free speech, but i won't help you pass out flyers.

Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.
--Voltaire

Nietzsche isn't dead. How do I know he lives? He lives in my mind.
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#42
RE: Why Can't Anything Travel Faster than Light?
(13th December 2016, 14:30)Rhondazvous Wrote:
(13th December 2016, 07:45)Alex K Wrote: Basically, yeah. The abovementioned fact that the speed of light is always the same has as a direct consequence that your time would have to stand still if you're going at the speed of light.

Doesn't that create a paradox or at least an infinite loop? If time stands still at c then v = 0. which means m is not traveling at c so time doesn't stand still meaning that m is traveling at c where time stands still and v = 0, ad infinitum.
So, yes in a sense taking the limit of v=c as an observer is not a mathematically consistent thing to do and you encounter things like 0*infinity that by themselves aren't meaningful. But you also have to be careful how you define the velocity v - the velocity of photons being c is measured in the time frame of the observer, not of the photon.
Every object is at rest from its own perspective, and to square that with lightspeed always being c leads to the extreme ( and not quite mathematically consistent ) limiting case of time stopping. Then from the photons perspective, it doesn't move but also no time passes, so the speed is 0/0. This tells you that the vantage point of the photon isn't really a mathematically valid reference frame.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition

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#43
RE: Why Can't Anything Travel Faster than Light?
(13th December 2016, 14:30)Rhondazvous Wrote:
(13th December 2016, 07:45)Alex K Wrote: Basically, yeah. The abovementioned fact that the speed of light is always the same has as a direct consequence that your time would have to stand still if you're going at the speed of light.

Doesn't that create a paradox or at least an infinite loop? If time stands still at c then v = 0. which means m is not traveling at c so time doesn't stand still meaning that m is traveling at c where time stands still and v = 0, ad infinitum.

Because from the photon's "perspective" it's not traveling-- it's just a singularity connecting two distant atoms (from our perspective). Also, /0 is fun!
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#44
RE: Why Can't Anything Travel Faster than Light?
(13th December 2016, 15:42)Alex K Wrote:
(13th December 2016, 14:30)Rhondazvous Wrote: Doesn't that create a paradox or at least an infinite loop? If time stands still at c then v = 0. which means m is not traveling at c so time doesn't stand still meaning that m is traveling at c where time stands still and v = 0, ad infinitum.
So, yes in a sense taking the limit of v=c as an observer is not a mathematically consistent thing to do and you encounter things like 0*infinity that by themselves aren't meaningful. But you also have to be careful how you define the velocity v - the velocity of photons being c is measured in the time frame of the observer, not of the photon.
Every object is at rest from its own perspective, and to square that with lightspeed always being c leads to the extreme ( and not quite mathematically consistent ) limiting case of time stopping. Then from the photons perspective, it doesn't move but also no time passes, so the speed is 0/0. This tells you that the vantage point of the photon isn't really a mathematically valid reference frame.

"Every object is at rest from its own perspective"
Except the brain of a field theorist which can single-handedly keep the Tylenol industry in business for several decades.

If no time passes, how can light have a speed? It would already be whereever it's going. The very idea of going somewhere implies a time
I may defend your right to free speech, but i won't help you pass out flyers.

Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.
--Voltaire

Nietzsche isn't dead. How do I know he lives? He lives in my mind.
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#45
RE: Why Can't Anything Travel Faster than Light?
What I can never figure out for the love of God is how in the hell is a photon which apparently has no mass unable to travel from point a to point b in 0 time..
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#46
RE: Why Can't Anything Travel Faster than Light?
(13th December 2016, 20:26)Rhondazvous Wrote:
(13th December 2016, 15:42)Alex K Wrote: So, yes in a sense taking the limit of v=c as an observer is not a mathematically consistent thing to do and you encounter things like 0*infinity that by themselves aren't meaningful. But you also have to be careful how you define the velocity v - the velocity of photons being c is measured in the time frame of the observer, not of the photon.
Every object is at rest from its own perspective, and to square that with lightspeed always being c leads to the extreme ( and not quite mathematically consistent ) limiting case of time stopping. Then from the photons perspective, it doesn't move but also no time passes, so the speed is 0/0. This tells you that the vantage point of the photon isn't really a mathematically valid reference frame.

"Every object is at rest from its own perspective"
Except the brain of a field theorist which can single-handedly keep the Tylenol industry in business for several decades.

If no time passes, how can light have a speed? It would already be whereever it's going. The very idea of going somewhere implies a time

The time base used to measure light speed is always that of the outside observer, where time passes as usual...
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition

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#47
RE: Why Can't Anything Travel Faster than Light?
This reminds me of an old joke. 3 guys were discussin what isthe fastest thing...

One says, the fastest thing is human thought.
The second says the fastest thing is light.

The third says its diarhea. One doesn't have time to think or turn on the light.
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#48
RE: Why Can't Anything Travel Faster than Light?
(14th December 2016, 06:35)LastPoet Wrote: This reminds me of an old joke. 3 guys were discussin what isthe fastest thing...

One says, the fastest thing is human thought.
The second says the fastest thing is light.

The third says its diarhea. One doesn't have time to think or turn on the light.

Diarrhea Schmiarrhea. You haven't seen my blitzkrieg projectile vomiting performance a few weeks ago. That wall didn't even see it coming.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition

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#49
RE: Why Can't Anything Travel Faster than Light?
(14th December 2016, 03:33)Alex K Wrote:
(13th December 2016, 20:26)Rhondazvous Wrote: "Every object is at rest from its own perspective"
Except the brain of a field theorist which can single-handedly keep the Tylenol industry in business for several decades.

If no time passes, how can light have a speed? It would already be whereever it's going. The very idea of going somewhere implies a time

The time base used to measure light speed is always that of the outside observer, where time passes as usual...
Then to say no time passes for the photon, the observer must be able to see things from the photons pov. Is this the case? Or is this just a dichotomy between observation and mathematical calculation that makes us think the photon sees things differently?

(14th December 2016, 06:58)Alex K Wrote:
(14th December 2016, 06:35)LastPoet Wrote: This reminds me of an old joke. 3 guys were discussin what isthe fastest thing...

One says, the fastest thing is human thought.
The second says the fastest thing is light.

The third says its diarhea. One doesn't have time to think or turn on the light.

Diarrhea Schmiarrhea. You haven't seen my blitzkrieg projectile vomiting performance a few weeks ago. That wall didn't even see it coming.
You'll win a Newtonian/Einstein Noble prize if you can formulate a theory for why bills travel through the mail faster than checks.
I may defend your right to free speech, but i won't help you pass out flyers.

Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.
--Voltaire

Nietzsche isn't dead. How do I know he lives? He lives in my mind.
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