Question For Fellow Atheists...

[Catholic_Lady]

"A delusion is an unshakable belief in something untrue. These irrational beliefs defy normal reasoning, and remain firm even when overwhelming proof is presented to dispute them. Delusions are distinct from culturally or religiously based beliefs that may be seen as untrue by outsiders."

http://medical-dictionary.thefreediction.../Delusions

Right, "Delusions are distinct from culturally or religiously based beliefs that may be seen as untrue by outsiders."

...Just as you wrote above. So, why are posting this?

[Autolite]

After all, why would Mr. Jones lie to me? Jim is a good, Christian man.

I heard that he's quite a party animal too! His backyard get-togethers are to die for...

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http://medical-dictionary.thefreediction.../Delusions

Right, "Delusions are distinct from culturally or religiously based beliefs that may be seen as untrue by outsiders."

...Just as you wrote above. So, why are posting this?

The point I want to underscore is that the only thing that separates religious belief from the mental illness of delusion is that religion is a 'shared belief'.

If I believed in the Tooth Fairy and I lived on a secluded island where everyone else believed in the Tooth Fairy, then my belief in the Tooth Fairy would not be considered a delusion or a mental illness...

[Asmodee]

 After all, why would Mr. Jones lie to me?  Jim is a good, Christian man.

I heard that he's quite a party animal too!  His backyard get-togethers are to die for...

That was good for a chuckle.

[Catholic_Lady]

Right, "Delusions are distinct from culturally or religiously based beliefs that may be seen as untrue by outsiders."

...Just as you wrote above. So, why are posting this?

The point I want to underscore is that the only thing that separates religious belief from the mental illness of delusion is that religion is a 'shared belief'.

If I believed in the Tooth Fairy and I lived on a secluded island where everyone else believed in the Tooth Fairy, then my belief in the Tooth Fairy would not be considered a delusion or a mental illness...

And there's a reason why the medical experts define it that way. When you believe in something that is widely shared and accepted, it takes away the whole point of someone having a mental illness. 

On the very source you provided, it also says this under "Description": 

"Delusions are a common symptom of several mood and personality-related mental illnesses, including schizoaffective disorder, schizophrenia, shared psychotic disorder, major depressive disorder, and bipolar disorder. They are also the major feature of delusional disorder. Individuals with delusional disorder suffer from long-term, complex delusions that fall into one of six categories: persecutory, grandiose, jealousy, erotomanic, somatic, or mixed. There are also delusional disorders such as dementia that clearly have organic or physical causes."

Believing in God, Jesus, Buddha, Allah, Mohammed, etc etc when they are beliefs shared by many cultures around the world, does not put someone in any of the mental illness categories listed above, which is precisely why the medical definition of the word explicitly excludes them.

[Mr Greene]

If you talk to 'god' you are not necessarily delusional, if 'god' talks to you on the other hand...

[Autolite]

If you talk to 'god' you are not necessarily delusional, if 'god' talks to you on the other hand...

Indeed.

Yet if a Theist claims that 'god' spoke to them, we are expected to afford that individual credibility.

I recently watched a Theist vs Atheist debate on YouTube. It was some sort of televised show from the BBC1. On it, there was one fella (Taiwanese or Singaporean IIRC) who claimed that while in prison, god spoke to him. He was adamant that the conversation was vocal and that it was just as normal and clear as any open conversation between two people. And god apparently spoke in English!

Now under the medical definition for a delusion, we are suppose to assume that this guy was mentally fit!?!

[robvalue]

It's a delusion, yes. It is very unfortunate that many of the behaviors and beliefs nurtured by religion can mimic mental illness. This interferes with the diagnosis.

Delusion can be a symptom of mental illness, but delusions can also be programmed in and reinforced. The distinction is important because mental illness usually requires treatment, and will respond to such. Someone with a programmed delusion doesn't need treatment, nor will they respond to it. They just "need" to realize what has been done to them, one way or another. But they can generally function perfectly well even with the delusion. Of course, it may well cause them to make bad decisions if they are more than lightly inside the realm of fantasy.

What is and isn't a mental illness is ultimately a matter of debate for medical professionals, so I'm just giving my take on it. I don't see advantage or accuracy in labeling religion as such, personally. The cause is not the same. Of course, when you have someone who is actually seriously mentally ill and mix that with religion, the result can be a disaster.

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Having said that, I've been indoctrinated myself with non-religious beliefs, which have plagued me my whole life. Cognitive behavior therapy has helped me come to terms with and challenge these beliefs. But it worked because I wanted to challenge them; I was open to the possibility I was wrong. That doesn't make me mentally ill. As it happens, I am mentally ill (I have depression) for which I am on treatment.

[Mr Greene]

If you talk to 'god' you are not necessarily delusional, if 'god' talks to you on the other hand...

Indeed.

Yet if a Theist claims that 'god' spoke to them, we are expected to afford that individual credibility.

I recently watched a Theist vs Atheist debate on YouTube.  It was some sort of televised show from the BBC1. On it, there was one fella (Taiwanese or Singaporean IIRC) who claimed that while in prison, god spoke to him.  He was adamant that the conversation was vocal and that it was just as normal and clear as any open conversation between two people.  And god apparently spoke in English!

Now under the medical definition for a delusion, we are suppose to assume that this guy was mentally fit!?!

Are we expected to give credibility? Can't say I've ever found that to be the case.

[robvalue]

True. I accept someone believes whatever thing they believe, but I don't have to pretend I believe it is real. But neither do I have to reject the whole person based on that one thing, either.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I don't view them as messed up.

I see that there are quite a few here who feel the same way.  If you don't see belief in non-existing critters being 'messed-up' then what then?  Can you give me an example of what you would consider to be a delusional belief???

I think you're mixing apples and oranges. Perfectly reasonable people often hold irrational views (cf. my comment about compartmentalization), because emotion vs logic is not a black-and-white thing in people. We lie on a spectrum where those qualities are polar opposites, but in my experience the vast majority of those I've met lie somewhere in between.

---

After all, why would Mr. Jones lie to me? Jim is a good, Christian man.

I heard that he's quite a party animal too! His backyard get-togethers are to die for...

---

Right, "Delusions are distinct from culturally or religiously based beliefs that may be seen as untrue by outsiders."

...Just as you wrote above. So, why are posting this?

The point I want to underscore is that the only thing that separates religious belief from the mental illness of delusion is that religion is a 'shared belief'.

If I believed in the Tooth Fairy and I lived on a secluded island where everyone else believed in the Tooth Fairy, then my belief in the Tooth Fairy would not be considered a delusion or a mental illness...

I think it was Sam Harris who wrote, "There is sanity in numbers." I regard belief in gods as delusional in the sense that it is impervious to countervailing reality and arguments supporting that reality, but it is not delusional in the clinical sense of the word.

You seem intent on ignoring the social programming that goes into religious belief, and as Rob mentioned, the pressure for conformity that affects people and their outlooks.