Question For Fellow Atheists...

[Whateverist]

This is my first visit to your forum.  I have been a full-hard-right Atheist for at least twenty five years but I would like to ask a question that I think only another Atheist might be able to help me with.

I've spent several years discussing religion both on and offline but I think I have reached a point of 'Atheist burn-out'.  I don't think it would be a surprise to any Atheist here that such discussions rarely actually accomplish any tangible results reference changing the mind of a Theist and far more often than not usually only end up in generating a considerable amount of animosity between both parties. 

I would like to know how you other Atheists deal with and view Theists?

It seems to bother me more and more that there are so many people who continue to buy into the B.S. that is Theism.  I recently watched the 'Jesus Camp' documentary and found it unsettling and even a little depressing.  How do you fellow Atheists reconcile the fact that most of the people that you know are basically mentally 'screwed-up'.

A few weeks ago a christian neighbour of mine made a religious comment so profoundly absurd and ridiculous that it almost sent me into shock.  How do you cope knowing that many so people are this messed up?  I sometimes feel like I'm trapped in some sort of surreal 'Twilight Zone' type of parallel universe that is controlled and run by total nut-cases...

Atheism is a belief system of despair and makes no sense in view of the Evidence for Intelligent Design (The creation of the Universe, DNA molecule information pointing to Intelligent Programmer). Thus people will Never lose the sense of the Divine no

matter how hard you try, and Atheism will one day die out, for the simple fact that atheists tend to be less generous and have fewer children. Due to rules I cannot yet post links , just Google;  Why people with no religion are projected to decline as a share

of the world’s population.

Dick.

[Asmodee]

Well I'm not necessarily suggesting that we shame Theists.  We don't shame people who are mentally ill.  But it might be a start if the medical community collectively agreed that religious belief is a delusion.  Once that acknowledgement is made, we can then work towards a cure.

Although I must agree that it's not likely to be completely successful.  Delusional people quite often refuse to admit, at least initially, that they're delusional.  Here's a good book that talks a lot about how we should deal with this...

https://www.amazon.ca/Not-Sick-Dont-Need...+need+help

Bold mine. A cure for theism? I'm scared to ask. Would you expect this to be forced upon people? A theist is not going to submit themselves for "treatment". There is nothing particular about theism here, any kind of delusion can be broken with regular talking therapies, but it requires cooperation and motivation from the deluded person.

If you're suggesting optional clinics are offered where you can get "cured of theism", do you really expect a single person to attend?

Sadly, such places already exist for the other side.  Christians send their children to these horrible place to be beaten, abused and treated like prisoners, broken down, ready to receive a new identity if the child should dare reject their magical belief system or, worse, choose to have been born gay.  Completely unregulated, almost completely unchecked these places are often as bad for the kids as the toughest prisons for the worst criminal offenders.  If they can do that to kids, fuck 'em.  I can at least sign off on involuntary treatment for any asshole who ever did that to their kids.

[Ohhellno]

Autolite:
Thoughtful question. I have suffered second degree burns from the same experience myself. Personally, I have come to the conclusion that there are fundamental differences in the thought processes between atheists and theists. Our minds are somehow different, one screening all incoming information through the filters of logic and reason and the other screening all incoming information through the filters of faith and the words in their chosen holy book. Theists also seem to lack anything even approximating a bullshit meter, let alone a hair trigger bullshit meter.

Consider, as an example, the YouTube videos featuring the debates between various theists and some of the more prominent atheist personalities such as Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins, etc. Maybe you will notice, as I have, that two completely different languages are being spoken between the debaters, neither of which is understood by the other and as a result, the outcome is always the same: neither side was moved or persuaded in any way by the arguments of the other.

I have no idea why some people just instinctively question everything as a 'given' prerequisite for finding the truth while others are perfectly willing to accept, on faith, the teachings of others, especially if those teachings are underscored by promises of heaven or threats of hell. I consider the latter as an abdication of personal responsibility, which, I am afraid, is a common defect of our species. And that abdication goes far beyond religion, as we witness that most people give the responsibility for their personal health to their doctor and give the responsibility for their personal finances to various iterations of Bernie Madoff. We let our teachers tell us what to think as we graduate into modern society with our straight "A's" and our degrees, without ever having learned or been taught how to think for ourselves, and therefore never having had an original thought. We let our politicians tell us who is good and who is evil and in need of killing in the world. We let the corporate media tell us what to buy and how to dress, and all this and more without ever once suspecting that we have willingly allowed ourselves to become enslaved, and then informed by our religious indoctrination to enjoy our enslavement because help is on the way. How does one remain asleep through all of that? I have no idea.

The bottom line is that it is not easy being awake and conscious in a world that is mostly still asleep. To the status quo, truth is the most dangerous and threatening thing imaginable: it can get you killed. Trying to awaken others is no exercise for the faint of heart. Frustration, futility and burn-out are a result of actually thinking you can change what another person thinks. The truth is that most often you cannot. The answer to these frustrations lies in unconditional love and just plain letting go.

[Autolite]

The bottom line is that it is not easy being awake and conscious in a world that is mostly still asleep. To the status quo, truth is the most dangerous and threatening thing imaginable: it can get you killed. Trying to awaken others is no exercise for the faint of heart. Frustration, futility and burn-out are a result of actually thinking you can change what another person thinks. The truth is that most often you cannot. 

I think you've summed it up quite well.  Thank you for that excellent post...

[Ravenshire]

You really don't have any idea how insulting and ignorant it is to compare God to the Tooth Fairy do you?

About as insulting and ignorant as it is when we get compared to Pol Pot?

[Neo-Scholastic]

...the thought processes between atheists and theists. Our minds are somehow different, one screening all incoming information through the filters of logic and reason and the other screening all incoming information through the filters of faith and the words in their chosen holy book. Theists also seem to lack anything even approximating a bullshit meter, let alone a hair trigger bullshit meter.

Atheists do not have a monopoly on logic and reason. I invite you to listen to the Podcast titled "Unbelievable?" It is free on iTunes.

---

You really don't have any idea how insulting and ignorant it is to compare God to the Tooth Fairy do you?

About as insulting and ignorant as it is when we get compared to Pol Pot?

That would indeed be insulting.

[Ravenshire]

About as insulting and ignorant as it is when we get compared to Pol Pot?

That would indeed be insulting.

So, I'm guessing you'll understand our lack of concern over your butt-hurt.

[Mr Greene]

Atheism will one day die out

You might want to check your sources there, xtianity will die out in the UK in the next 2 decades. The rest of Europe will follow shortly afterwards. The Americans are following about 4 decades behind. The low life expectancy of Africa and South America make them more volatile though they remain heavily influenced by the west.
Sharia is ultimately incompatible with Western legal systems, the fact it enshrines slavery alone will see to that.

[robvalue]

I've had a think and I have changed my position slightly. I now fully support the removal of the religious caveat from any definition of "delusion", including medical.

I realised I was making an error. I figured that if this caveat was removed, then any religious belief automatically becomes a delusion by definition. This isn't the case. The definition and categorisation criteria are still quite subjective, and so it would be on a case by case basis that any religious belief was assessed (if there was a reason to do so). This is as it should be. The previous rule was simply excluding religious based beliefs from ever being a delusion, which is obviously incorrect, inconsistent and improper.

On this basis, I don't see how even religious people could object. They clearly think everyone in every other religion is deluded.

Of course, there is the further discussion about whether religious belief could ever not be considered a delusion. My answer is "probably not" naturally, but I doubt the world is ready for that additional step yet.