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To all believers: Do you believe in miracles?
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 (September 20, 2010 at 4:33 am)Rayaan Wrote: As a believer, I think it's true that the Prophets were able to do miracles like the splitting of the moon, for example. Seriously? Where in any part of any other cultures history does it mention the fact that the massive rock in the sky was split into two? Surely it would have been noted by another civilisation on the earth at the time, I think anyone that witnessed that would see the importance in mentioning that. 
As a christian, this comment is only about christianity and not religion in general.
This is my thinking. If there is a God who can create physics just by saying it. There is no reason to believe that miracles can not happen. The power is is there for it. If God does not exist, yes clearly miracles cant happen. But if God does exist and has revealed himself through the bible. Which you can find a lot of in the new testament about miracles and healings, and even commandents to christians to go out and heal. Then yes miracles are perfectly rational. but obviously it all hinges on the does God exist bit. Which is for you to decide. RE: To all believers: Do you believe in miracles?
September 20, 2010 at 1:43 pm
(This post was last modified: September 20, 2010 at 1:44 pm by Soyouz.)
@ Rayaan WOW, do you also believe that pigs can fly? Do you believe in magic? How come there is no information of that what so ever and that no one has ever done anything simular.
 (September 20, 2010 at 1:12 pm)bucky Wrote: As a christian, this comment is only about christianity and not religion in general.Can't accept that Bucky, it isn't rational at all. There is no law of logic that gets you from god exists, therefore miracles happen or even can happen. You need to show a causal link. Then if you can show that, you then need to demonstrate how god would interact with a physical and finite universe, when god is defined as immaterial and infinite. Otherwise the claims of miracles can be reduced to mere mystcism and magic. To which there is no evidence at all and plenty of evidence of fakery.
"I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack of confidence"...Doug McLeod.
@CS - I disagree and think it's rational.
Presupposing God exists as defined as the creator of the universe he would A) be more powerful or complex then the sum of his creation therefore all powerful in relation within this universe B) If he created something from nothing his power obviously has the ability to manifest physically. Miracles are perfectly reasonable using the above rationale. Of course those are some mighty big presuppositions and would require just as substantial evidence. But while none of this speaks of it's truth I wouldn't say it were irrational. Perhaps a solely materialistic view might see anything insubstantial, even in probability, as irrational because what's rational is what's real to them and what's real is only what they can see,taste, touch or hear.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari  (September 20, 2010 at 2:12 am)Entropist Wrote:Quote:However many recovered cancer patients one can drum up who might claim they had family members and church members praying for them, I can produce an equal number of equally prayed-for patients who weren't as "divinely healed. Not only does he exist, but he deserves praise for saving that poor kid's life. The other 143 ... screw them, man.
Our Daily Train blog at jeremystyron.com
--- We have lingered in the chambers of the sea | By sea-girls wreathed with seaweed red and brown | Till human voices wake us, and we drown. — T.S. Eliot "... man always has to decide for himself in the darkness, that he must want beyond what he knows. ..." — Simone de Beauvoir "As if that blind rage had washed me clean, rid me of hope; for the first time, in that night alive with signs and stars, I opened myself to the gentle indifference of the world. Finding it so much like myself—so like a brother, really—I felt that I had been happy and that I was happy again." — Albert Camus, "The Stranger" --- 
Miracles you read about in "God's Books" doesn't occur these days. And the only explanation for this is that god (Jesus/Allah/Rowan Atkinson) has lost interest in us and moved on into a more hopeful species, perhaps Vulcans
 RE: To all believers: Do you believe in miracles?
September 20, 2010 at 10:58 pm
(This post was last modified: September 20, 2010 at 10:59 pm by theVOID.)
(September 20, 2010 at 1:12 pm)bucky Wrote: If God does not exist, yes clearly miracles cant happen. So the events you described as miracles are only miracles if a God exists, but if he doesn't exist they are just perfectly natural and explainable? What if God exists and there are still no miracles? If your miracles are explainable by natural mechanism then what part of them was miraculous to begin with? (September 20, 2010 at 4:33 am)Rayaan Wrote: As a believer, I think it's true that the Prophets were able to do miracles like the splitting of the moon, for example. Lol yeah and he flew around on a winged unicorn too... Does it hurt your brain to discard reality in favor of fairy tales?
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Although, it could make another topic, which I want to create.. since we're on the topic of miracles, let me propose another question to those who believe in miracles.
Why do you CONSIDER a miracle? I don't understand how religious people can look at something, and consider it a "miracle" when it's obviously not. To be fair, I'll give you an example of what I would consider a miracle: A person blows up, to bits and pieces, blood and parts fly everywhere. Police and CSIs show up, confirm the man as dead, and that's it's his body. They gather up the pieces, clean it up, and all of a sudden, the pieces glow and form together, and the man is alive again. He's all like, "Hey guys, sup?" and walks away. I'd consider that a "miracle."
I like the way you think!
...But please stop thinking, it's not you.
I like the definition: "A miracle is anything that could not have occurred through natural mechanism"
For example surviving against the odds or spontaneous recovery from illness the is unlikely, but still permissible through natural mechanism, where as unassisted human flight, or the moon splitting in half and then recombining without a trace is not.
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