French Presidential elections

[pocaracas]

[Isis]

"Europe's unification"

So you believe in a United States of Europe then?

I don't think Le Pen will win but that's just me.

[Pat Mustard]

There was just a little quote from that article that I thought was stupendous!
Talking about Marine Le Pen, they say "Comparisons to Trump make good press but are in many ways off the mark. Le Pen has a law degree, speaks coherently and has well thought out programs whether one agrees with them or not. She also explicitly believes in working with Vladimir Putin."  

And then you start listening to her rallies, and the picture clarifies. She starts looking like a female version of Hitler, or to be more accurate, a Jospehine Goebbels.

[pocaracas]

"Europe's unification"

So you believe in a United States of Europe then?

I don't think Le Pen will win but that's just me.

It's called EU: European Union

[Isis]

It's called EU: European Union

I am well aware of what it is called, thank you very much. Europe doesn't need to be "unified" - every country is an independent, sovereign state and it should remain that way. You didn't quite answer my question though.

[pocaracas]

It's called EU: European Union

I am well aware of what it is called, thank you very much. Europe doesn't need to be "unified" - every country is an independent, sovereign state and it should remain that way. You didn't quite answer my question though.

Yeah, yeah... the old us vs them tribal thing that humans still carry around in their genes...



I like the concept of the global village, where each person can go anywhere on Earth and live and work, without needing to deal with certain regions' claim on the person... where each region does retain it's individual qualities, most of them borne out of geography and climate, and can also easily interact with other regions for trade.
One centralized governmental body would make it oh so much easier to properly implement environmentally sound regulations, everywhere... no need to worry that the neighbor is going to be producing cheaper stuff because they don't have to answer to some regulatory body.
And a myriad other things like tax havens, exchange rates, etc etc etc etc....
Sure, some things would be more complex... but overall I think things would be better for the whole of humanity.

[Isis]

Yeah, yeah... the old us vs them tribal thing that humans still carry around in their genes...

Jesus.

I support immigration. I want to move country myself one day but I don't think the EU should be working towards the United States of Europe. They have got enough power over member states as it is.

I like the concept of the global village, where each person can go anywhere on Earth and live and work, without needing to deal with certain regions' claim on the person... where each region does retain it's individual qualities, most of them borne out of geography and climate, and can also easily interact with other regions for trade.

One centralized governmental body would make it oh so much easier to properly implement environmentally sound regulations, everywhere... no need to worry that the neighbor is going to be producing cheaper stuff because they don't have to answer to some regulatory body.
And a myriad other things like tax havens, exchange rates, etc etc etc etc....
Sure, some things would be more complex... but overall I think things would be better for the whole of humanity.

Cool, but you're too idealistic and setting yourself up for some pretty major disappointment. A one world government with open borders everywhere is never going to happen.

Trust me, I would just love to be able to enter the US, Canada and Japan and start living and working there without needing to go through immigration systems but it just wouldn't work in practice. Borders are not tribalistic, you can be welcoming to immigrants but also want to keep the troublemakers out.

[vorlon13]

I don't see the French EU issue being a binary choice; stay or go.

How about the EU cut WAY back on the bloat, administrative redundancy, waste, administrative bloat, overhead, redundancy, administrative idiocy, redundancy, waste, and administrative bloat ???

A smooth running, efficient and taut EU might even get Britain back in the fold. If the EU was managed well enough leaving becomes unthinkable for the members, then the members won't think about leaving.


Sheeesh!! Is this so fucking hard to noodle out ??

[pocaracas]

[Isis]

In a sense, yes, it has been working well for the EU, that's great and all, but that's only a fairly small amount of countries. We're talking worldwide open borders here and that is totally unrealistic. People aren't going to sit back and watch their country's being stripped of their sovereignty completely.

Before you say it, that isn't tribalistic and anyone who thinks so is a fool. As I said, you can be welcoming to immigrants but also support borders. Borders help keep out the troublemakers while still letting the law-abiding, hard-working folk in.

Let's just say, hypothetically, we were close to establishing a world government, what about the countries who don't want to join? Are you going to invade and annex them? Sanction them until they bow down and become part of your project? You can bet your ass many countries won't.