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"Cultural Appropriation"
RE: "Cultural Appropriation"
(June 27, 2017 at 12:02 pm)paulpablo Wrote: Ths thread is going off into the realms of fantasy the way threads do when khemical gets involved.

Cultural apropriation isn't directly harmful.

It isn't a white master raping a black slave woman in some fields, or led Zeppelin stealing song ideas off black blues artists, or a white colonist stealing land.

Those things are all wrong because they involve stealing, the rape, the land stealing, the stealing of actual song lyrics and riffs are wrong because of the stealing, a white man who raped a black woman isn't wrong because of any reason to do with culture, it's because he's having sex with her by force.

The apropriation of culture, whatever that means, isn't the problem, it's the violent unprovoked force.

Khemical is a bigot and a particularly dumb one. He actually said that denial of cultural appropriation is built into the definition of cultural appropriation therefore if you deny it, you prove it... LOL That's the low level his mind works at.

As far as cultural appropriation goes, I'm glad to see that most people see it for what it is. It's the inevitable result of people using ideas they like from one another and it goes in every direction. There is no way to stop it and nor should it be stopped. We would all be the poorer for it. 

But, Khemical wants you to feel bad about it or else you're all racist bigots. But don't worry, he's so great he's willing to overlook this about you.
If god was real he wouldn't need middle men to explain his wants or do his bidding.
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RE: "Cultural Appropriation"
(June 27, 2017 at 5:55 pm)Crunchy Wrote: Khemical is a bigot and a particularly dumb one. He actually said that denial of cultural appropriation is built into the definition of cultural appropriation therefore if you deny it, you prove it... LOL That's the low level his mind works at.
Actually, I didn't say that, but it looks like a dumb person might. I know, I know, I'm bigoted against bigots.  A real superbigot.  Okay.  I'm fine with that.  I;ve been told that sincere bigotry is somehow more likable or preferable.
(lol, benny, I couldn't help it., please love me in the morning)

Quote:As far as cultural appropriation goes, I'm glad to see that most people see it for what it is. It's the inevitable result of people using ideas they like from one another and it goes in every direction. There is no way to stop it and nor should it be stopped. We would all be the poorer for it. 
So it didn't happen and isn't a thing, but there's no way to stop it and we're all the better for it.  Pretty sure we already addressed this.  Pretty sure that the people who it didn't™ happen to might disagree.

Quote:But, Khemical wants you to feel bad about it or else you're all racist bigots. But don't worry, he's so great he's willing to overlook this about you.
The usual suspects and their usual fear of white guilt, lol.  No, Khemikal doesn't think that anyone has to feel bad about it, unless they did it, or defend it, or deny that it ever happened.  There's no shame for me (or anyone else) in america having engaged in cultural appropriation.  The shame, for most of us, would be in denying it. I'm willing to bet you hit all three of my criteria for shame, though, crunchy. Wink

See, it's illegal to deny the holocaust in germany.  There's some authoritarian leftism at work.  Strange how legitimate authoritarian leftism (as in, not just some fucking crazies, but governments writing laws), today, seems to manifest itself like that..wheres fascism, today...expresses itself......in the usual suspects, and their usual responses, and their laughable..usual...fears.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: "Cultural Appropriation"
Never before have I been in a thread where I was so totally opposed to someone's ideas, and so quickly back in agreement with them, and back out of agreement again-- and in this case with more than one party. Shell B and I were both going at it, and Khemical as well, and somehow the playing field has flipped at least once, and almost twice. That makes this thread a particularly interesting one to me.

I suspect that there IS in fact a bit of hidden bigotry or entitlement-of-power, behind some of the positions, much as Khemical claims, but then I've already said some of the exact same things that those people are saying. On the other hand, I suspect that there's a bit the SJW wind-up about some things, i.e. some self-validation through social masturbation, and I've ALSO said some of those same exact things already. Can I be extra cool if I change my political denomination to "SJW Bigot?" Big Grin

I even find selective SUPPORT for a group to be racist, in that it's patronizing. Let's say I start going around and shitting on white chicks who have decorative dream catchers: try to rip them off their necks, tell them I have native friends, and their actions are deeply offensive and they should learn more about a culture before they use its spiritual symbols etc. Is she not right to ask me why I think it necessary to stand as the champion of a group of which I'm not part?

How about black people and black culture? Should I get pissed off at white kids with dreadlocks and Bob Marley t-shirts? Should I EVEN feel angry if I hear some old white fart make an explicitly racist joke? I've heard plenty of jokes where I think "Holy geeez, man, if I were black, I'd be seething right now!" But somehow, I can't really find it in my heart to get pissed off even then. I kind of think: "Oh. . . I've bumped into someone from THAT background. Ewww."
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RE: "Cultural Appropriation"
[Image: img_0051.jpg]


I wish American cultural would appropriate penis gourds.

(have I posted this before?  Idunno, I just luv this picture.  Penis gourd is automatically masculine)
 The granting of a pardon is an imputation of guilt, and the acceptance a confession of it. 




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RE: "Cultural Appropriation"
(June 27, 2017 at 6:18 pm)bennyboy Wrote: Never before have I been in a thread where I was so totally opposed to someone's ideas, and so quickly back in agreement with them, and back out of agreement again-- and in this case with more than one party.  Shell B and I were both going at it, and Khemical as well, and somehow the playing field has flipped at least once, and almost twice.  That makes this thread a particularly interesting one to me.

I suspect that there IS in fact a bit of hidden bigotry or entitlement-of-power, behind some of the positions, much as Khemical claims, but then I've already said some of the exact same things that those people are saying.  On the other hand, I suspect that there's a bit the SJW wind-up about some things, i.e. some self-validation through social masturbation, and I've ALSO said some of those same exact things already.  Can I be extra cool if I change my political denomination to "SJW Bigot?" Big Grin
There's definitely a wind up...crazy people on the internets say you should feel white guilt for cultural appropriation..and then the usual suspects trot them out in front of everyone as though this crazies youtube rant -was- the subject or issue of cultural appropriation.  No amount of telling them it's not will change their minds.  They -want- that crazies rant to be the subject.  Far easier, apparently, than saying "Yup, that happened and it was shitty".

Quote:I even find selective SUPPORT for a group to be racist, in that it's patronizing.  Let's say I start going around and shitting on white chicks who have decorative dream catchers: try to rip them off their necks, tell them I have native friends, and their actions are deeply offensive and they should learn more about a culture before they use its spiritual symbols etc.  Is she not right to ask me why I think it necessary to stand as the champion of a group of which I'm not part?
The subtle racism of lowered expectations, is my personal fave.  In any case, does a person have to be from the same race or group as another person in order to stand up against bigotry or racism directed at them? I don;t think so. In fact, I think it;s often impossible for a group to stand up for itself in the face of dedicated bigotry and racism....and denial. There's just no opportunity. Imagine a migrant migrant rights activist standing up for his friends in the middle of a crowd of trumpster ice agents. He gets deported, doesn't he? Well, they;re going to have a much harder time deporting me...and I;m going to keep saying exactly what he was saying.

Quote:How about black people and black culture?  Should I get pissed off at white kids with dreadlocks and Bob Marley t-shirts?
I can't see why.  

Quote:Should I EVEN feel angry if I hear some old white fart make an explicitly racist joke?
Probably more uncomfortable than angry..but even if you didn't...I doubt it's much of an issue.  

Quote:I've heard plenty of jokes where I think "Holy geeez, man, if I were black, I'd be seething right now!"  But somehow, I can't really find it in my heart to get pissed off even then.  I kind of think: "Oh. . . I've bumped into someone from THAT background.  Ewww."
See, I get the eewws for jokes.  Allow me to propose that;s also how african americans feel when they meet that person. Not seething anger..just eww. I get the "fuck you's" for genteel racism and apathetic bigotry apologism.

Can you imagine how exhausting life would be in the american south, for black people, if black people flipped their shit everytime they got called a certain word, or realized they were standing next to a certain kind of person™, lol?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: "Cultural Appropriation"
(June 27, 2017 at 6:14 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Actually, I didn't say that, but it looks like a dumb person might. I know, I know, I'm bigoted against bigots.  A real superbigot.  Okay.  I'm fine with that.  I;ve been told that sincere bigotry is somehow more likable or preferable.
(lol, benny, I couldn't help it., please love me in the morning)

Not at all. It's not an insult to saying I'm looking at nuances and flavors of bigotry, and considering where to draw the line, because I am.

What if I set out to build an atheist community? What if I did so because I think religious people are fucking idiots, and that even a smart theist has something a little bit wrong with them that I just don't feel I want in my life? What if I made a little flag for my community that I waved proudly or even saluted at special events, and upon discovering that members of my community had adopted religious positions, I was prepared by the constitution of that community and the might of the majority to eject those undesirables?

To me, this seems like a perfectly reasonable response-- you don't feel comfortable around certain people, and you feel really happy around other people, and so in your pursuit of happiness, you try to arrange an environment that will make you most comfortable.

I once saw a talk show-- Geraldo or Oprah or something where a KKK leader and a black-power leader seemed VERY favorably disposed toward each other, because they held the same view. The white guy said he had nothing in particular against black people, but he preferred to be around white people, and he thought that white girls and boys should marry each other exclusively. And the black guy said EXACTLY the same thing: he was proud to be black, he like the African American culture of which he was a part, and he was very upset to see so many black and white interracial marriages.

If there's really no intent for harm or degradation, is it really bad for someone to hold and express these kinds of preferences?

(June 27, 2017 at 6:28 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: [Image: img_0051.jpg]


I wish American cultural would appropriate penis gourds.

(have I posted this before?  Idunno, I just luv this picture.  Penis gourd is automatically masculine)

Wait. . . is that a white guy in blackface?  And is that guy behind him wearing a feathered head dress? It turns out that Vorlon's dick-loving ways know literally no bounds of decency!

Holy shit dude, let's just /thread    Big Grin
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RE: "Cultural Appropriation"
(June 27, 2017 at 6:40 pm)bennyboy Wrote: Not at all.  It's not an insult to saying I'm looking at nuances and flavors of bigotry, and considering where to draw the line, because I am.

What if I set out to build an atheist community?  What if I did so because I think religious people are fucking idiots, and that even a smart theist has something a little bit wrong with them that I just don't feel I want in my life?  What if I made a little flag for my community that I waved proudly or even saluted at special events, and upon discovering that members of my community had adopted religious positions, I was prepared by the constitution of that community and the might of the majority to eject those undesirables?
Good luck with that.  It's unamerican, and unlikely that you'd be able to pull it off without doing something illegal, here.    Canm you imagine the fox headline shitstorm about an hoa or condo that evicts people for finding out that the person was a christer?  They're not going to be short of representation or advocates...and they're going to extract one hell of a payment out of it, lol. Course.....you -might- be able to get away with it, in america..if you claimed that you were simply acting in accordance with your strongly held religious beliefs.....or that person couldn't get adequate legal representation for reasons™........

That's that good genteel bigotry, right thur.  

Quote:To me, this seems like a perfectly reasonable response-- you don't feel comfortable around certain people, and you feel really happy around other people, and so in your pursuit of happiness, you try to arrange an environment that will make you most comfortable.

Is there any law against bigots going and being bigots together, in america?  Has the new american fascism managed to make that illegal?  Nope.  You just can't do the bigotry to -other- people.  Like..you know..evict them (unless ofc they're brown and or from not christendom...maybe).  Unfortunately that means I can't evict them from my country..either.  See how they disappoint me as an nco of the leftist gestapo?

Wink
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: "Cultural Appropriation"
It's interesting watching the northern countries like Sweden, Finland, etc. go through their immigration process. Because they still have, for sure, some communities which are 100% white, and there is a very vociferous minority that want to keep it that way. America is a done deal-- it's multicultural, and. . . it just is. But what if some of those northern countries made race-based laws, like immigrants had to have paperwork showing they were Scandinavian going back at least three generations or whatever in order to get permanent visas?

That's clearly bigotry, but would it be wrong of them to do that? Or should the rest of the world press them to accept more correct views?
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RE: "Cultural Appropriation"
(June 27, 2017 at 6:59 pm)bennyboy Wrote: It's interesting watching the northern countries like Sweden, Finland, etc. go through their immigration process.  Because they still have, for sure, some communities which are 100% white.  America is a done deal-- it's multicultural, and. . . it just is.  But what if some of those northern countries made race-based laws, like immigrants had to have paperwork showing they were Scandinavian going back at least three generations or whatever in order to get permanent visas?

That's clearly bigotry, but would it be wrong of them to do that?

"Is bigotry wrong"...is that the question....lol?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
RE: "Cultural Appropriation"
(June 27, 2017 at 7:01 pm)Khemikal Wrote: "Is bigotry wrong"...is that the question....lol?

Yep. I'd say "Is bigotry intrinsically wrong?" I'd also ask if there is a non-zero percent of the population who aren't bigots about someone or something.

It seems to me that banding with like, and against unlike, is probably deeply ingrained in our species on a genetic level as part of our existence as an evolved social animal: it's just that we have a much more complex algorithm at work in determining how we decide who is "us" and who is "them": race, political affiliations, religious issues, and so many other things interacting with other. And once you've decided who "we" are, you are likely to fight for that group, and to threaten or attack members outside it.
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