Is the Holy Spirit Misleading You?

[Jehanne]

[SteveII]

[Jehanne]

[SteveII]

[Jehanne]

Just look at the evolution of Europe over the last 600 years; as Europe goes, so shall the entire World.  Once a country embraces atheism, such as France, there is no turning back, no religious revivals, except among a tiny population, largely, of immigrants.  I don't think that most of the board members here give a hoot about liberal religious traditions, such as Episcopalians, who are nearly tolerant of everyone, atheists included, and would balk at imposing their religious and/or moral beliefs upon anyone.

[SteveII]

Just look at the evolution of Europe over the last 600 years; as Europe goes, so shall the entire World. [1] Once a country embraces atheism, such as France, there is no turning back, no religious revivals, except among a tiny population, largely, of immigrants. [2] I don't think that most of the board members here give a hoot about liberal religious traditions, such as Episcopalians, who are nearly tolerant of everyone, atheists included, and would balk at imposing their religious and/or moral beliefs upon anyone.

1. That's interesting because for 500 years of the 600 you mention, religion dominated Europe. So, what exactly is the foundation of your premise that the rest of the world will follow it into it's slide into irrelevance?
2.  How do you explain that China was the most atheistic country in the world a generation ago and now Christianity is making staggeringly large gains there in the last couple of decades and will become the most Christian nation (surpassing the US in numbers) in the world within 2 generations of being the most atheistic !?!? It seems your conclusions are entirely unfounded.

[Lek]

The message of the Holy Spirit is always true.  Individuals who perform evil in the name of the Holy Spirit are not following him.  Do some people commit evil in the name of God?  Sure.  People commit evil in the name of many things and may even think they're doing the right thing.  We should always check our desires against scripture.  In the case of burning witches, the bible doesn't condone it.  It may have been commanded to the old testament Israelites, but not to us.  God's covenant with Moses had it's purposes and his covenant with his followers after the cross has it's purposes.

Then please explain 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12:

'For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.'

If the message of the Holy Spirit is always true, why does God deliberately delude people?

Boru

If you read the preceding and following verses you will discover that he is referring to people who already refuse to believe God. It says that he will cause these people to believe and follow the man of lawlessness. It's not that the Spirit is lying to them, but rather that God is withholding the Spirit from them so that they will naturally be deceived by the man of lawlessness.

[Jehanne]

Just look at the evolution of Europe over the last 600 years; as Europe goes, so shall the entire World. [1] Once a country embraces atheism, such as France, there is no turning back, no religious revivals, except among a tiny population, largely, of immigrants. [2] I don't think that most of the board members here give a hoot about liberal religious traditions, such as Episcopalians, who are nearly tolerant of everyone, atheists included, and would balk at imposing their religious and/or moral beliefs upon anyone.

1. That's interesting because for 500 years of the 600 you mention, religion dominated Europe. So, what exactly is the foundation of your premise that the rest of the world will follow it into it's slide into irrelevance?
2.  How do you explain that China was the most atheistic country in the world a generation ago and now Christianity is making staggeringly large gains there in the last couple of decades and will become the most Christian nation (surpassing the US in numbers) in the world within 2 generations of being the most atheistic !?!? It seems your conclusions are entirely unfounded.

You don't know China's future any more than I do; in fact, it may be the repression in China with their Great Firewall that is leading scores of individuals down the path of ignorance into the nonsense of religious faith.  And, I have no idea of how you can say that Europe, with 300 million people and with over one-half of all Nobel Prize winners, is somehow "irrelevant".

[SteveII]

1. That's interesting because for 500 years of the 600 you mention, religion dominated Europe. So, what exactly is the foundation of your premise that the rest of the world will follow it into it's slide into irrelevance?
2.  How do you explain that China was the most atheistic country in the world a generation ago and now Christianity is making staggeringly large gains there in the last couple of decades and will become the most Christian nation (surpassing the US in numbers) in the world within 2 generations of being the most atheistic !?!? It seems your conclusions are entirely unfounded.

You don't know China's future any more than I do; in fact, it may be the repression in China with their Great Firewall that is leading scores of individuals down the path of ignorance into the nonsense of religious faith.  And, I have no idea of how you can say that Europe, with 300 million people and with over one-half of all Nobel Prize winners, is somehow "irrelevant".

So, China's population was largely atheists a generation ago and now, because they can't get the full internet, their population (by the tens of millions) can't resist the slide into ignorance and nonsense without the government telling them what to believe. Boy, atheism is complicated!!

LOL, Europeans giving Europeans awards--that is a true sign of relevance! Listen, it's not that I don't like Europe, but you can't imagine that they are going to be anywhere near the force they were when they had armies and navies controlling the trading of the world. That time has long past. It is only that they have banded together that they are of any economic relevance today. Politically? Do they have any power in the world?

[Jehanne]

You don't know China's future any more than I do; in fact, it may be the repression in China with their Great Firewall that is leading scores of individuals down the path of ignorance into the nonsense of religious faith.  And, I have no idea of how you can say that Europe, with 300 million people and with over one-half of all Nobel Prize winners, is somehow "irrelevant".

So, China's population was largely atheists a generation ago and now, because they can't get the full internet, their population (by the tens of millions) can't resist the slide into ignorance and nonsense without the government telling them what to believe. Boy, atheism is complicated!!

LOL, Europeans giving Europeans awards--that is a true sign of relevance! Listen, it's not that I don't like Europe, but you can't imagine that they are going to be anywhere near the force they were when they had armies and navies controlling the trading of the world. That time has long past. It is only that they have banded together that they are of any economic relevance today. Politically? Do they have any power in the world?

You have absolutely no evidence whatsoever that China, as a whole, was ever atheistic a generation ago.  Perhaps this was true of some in the Communist Party but not true of the populace, as a whole.  But, who really cares?  You can try to convert as many people as you want to your nonsensical and false belief system; we and I will do our best to deconvert them, or better yet, help them not to waste their time, energy and money going down that futile path to begin with!

As for Europe's influence in the World, you might as well try to argue the fact that the Earth is flat by doubting that Europe, as a whole, is at least influential, if not more so, than the United States.