Better terminology for "Father and Son" ?

[Cyberman]

[vorlon13]

Excellent.

And there's my concern with the descriptive:  father and son.  

No such human relationship has ever occurred or can occur. And describing it as "father and son" is definitely confusing the religious folks.  And this is a grave matter of concern to them (or should be) as 'not doing it right' particularly in this regard is heresy or apostasy.  And we all know heretics and apostates don't merit Salvation.

And heretics and apostates are already occupying too much of our time and efforts here at Atheist Forums that could be better spent refuting folks actually "doing it right" and who are proselyting for the One True Faith.

Squabbles between atheists and heretics don't advance our core mission, after all.  Heretics are damned as much as we are.

[Godscreated]

well this is part of my ongoing effort to help the believers to 'up their game' as it were, that someday we might have one here worthy of our atheist attentions in refuting an actual contender for The One True Faith.

I wouldn't consider  imposing a deadline, but I might hint vaguely that at some point in the future I might propose to staff here we institute criteria for believers that want to post here and that we phase out the current practice of allowing obvious heretics and apostates on the forum.

We were ahead of you long ago, you've never given anything worth hearing, so being worthy of an argument is completely out.

The father, Son and Holy Spirit are and have always been. Jesus called God the Father both God and Father and referred to himself as Son. We Christians have no problem distinguishing between the three of the Triune God. The problems is with you and the other atheist here, it really isn't hard if you gave it a little bit of effort.

GC

[Anomalocaris]

For God and Jesus.  Father and Son.  Think about it.  Their relationship is fundamentally different than any human father and son EVER.  Use of the phrase, to me, seems to deny the scope/extent/degree/nature of their relationship and misleads those attempting to be faithful to them.

Just throwing this out, but the relationship might be more akin to budding, although I concur it is incomplete too, but less misleading than the 'father and son' label.  

Additionally, 'Father and son' implies (asserts?) a genetic contribution from Mary.  That can't be possible, as the (for lack of a better term) resultant hybrid would definitely NOT be the original, and would be denying the Trinity in it's essential constitution, which we know to be false.

I'm aware of the limitation of words and wordsmithing, but the term "Father and Son" in regards to God and Jesus is so far off the mark that to use it is equivalent of heresy.

There has to be a better way of saying it.

Suffice it to say the father and son concept can only result from some enormously disturbed psychology dredging to the deepest bilge of its psychopathology and exposing to light what is found adhering to the very bottom there.

[chimp3]

well this is part of my ongoing effort to help the believers to 'up their game' as it were, that someday we might have one here worthy of our atheist attentions in refuting an actual contender for The One True Faith.

I wouldn't consider  imposing a deadline, but I might hint vaguely that at some point in the future I might propose to staff here we institute criteria for believers that want to post here and that we phase out the current practice of allowing obvious heretics and apostates on the forum.

We were ahead of you long ago, you've never given anything worth hearing, so being worthy of an argument is completely out.

The father, Son and Holy Spirit are and have always been. Jesus called God the Father both God and Father and referred to himself as Son. We Christians have no problem distinguishing between the three of the Triune God. The problems is with you and the other atheist here, it really isn't hard if you gave it a little bit of effort.

GC

No Father would have his son murdered because other peoples kids misbehaved. Like the Parah Adumah being raised by cattle breeders to use as a sacrifice for the Third Temple, Jesus was more like livestock raised by a cattleman for ritual slaughter. So a breeder / chattel relationship is more accurate.

[vorlon13]

LOL, and this is pretty standard Protestant/Catholic understanding.  I'm trying to imagine a Mormon version and I'm failing . . . .

[Godscreated]

We were ahead of you long ago, you've never given anything worth hearing, so being worthy of an argument is completely out.

The father, Son and Holy Spirit are and have always been. Jesus called God the Father both God and Father and referred to himself as Son. We Christians have no problem distinguishing between the three of the Triune God. The problems is with you and the other atheist here, it really isn't hard if you gave it a little bit of effort.

GC

No Father would have his son murdered because other peoples kids misbehaved. Like the Parah Adumah being raised by cattle breeders to use as a sacrifice for the Third Temple, Jesus was more like livestock raised by a cattleman for ritual slaughter. So a breeder / chattel relationship is more accurate.

 You have mistakes probably from misunderstanding. Christ was certainly referred to as the Lamb of God because lambs where the sacrifice the at the Passover in Egypt. Jesus was/is God, God in the flesh and was no animal lead to the slaughter, He volunteered to be the sacrifice for mankind, we are His creation and He took on the responsibility of being the sacrificial lamb for mankind. Christ's sacrifice was no ritual, no previous sacrifice had ever risen from the dead.

GC

[chimp3]

No Father would have his son murdered because other peoples kids misbehaved. Like the Parah Adumah being raised by cattle breeders to use as a sacrifice for the Third Temple, Jesus was more like livestock raised by a cattleman for ritual slaughter. So a breeder / chattel relationship is more accurate.

 You have mistakes probably from misunderstanding. Christ was certainly referred to as the Lamb of God because lambs where the sacrifice the at the Passover in Egypt. Jesus was/is God, God in the flesh and was no animal lead to the slaughter, He volunteered to be the sacrifice for mankind, we are His creation and He took on the responsibility of being the sacrificial lamb for mankind. Christ's sacrifice was no ritual, no previous sacrifice had ever risen from the dead.

GC

Pretty sick shit! Sick when that myth was generated and sick when repeated by you.

[Harry Nevis]

No Father would have his son murdered because other peoples kids misbehaved. Like the Parah Adumah being raised by cattle breeders to use as a sacrifice for the Third Temple, Jesus was more like livestock raised by a cattleman for ritual slaughter. So a breeder / chattel relationship is more accurate.

 You have mistakes probably from misunderstanding. Christ was certainly referred to as the Lamb of God because lambs where the sacrifice the at the Passover in Egypt. Jesus was/is God, God in the flesh and was no animal lead to the slaughter, He volunteered to be the sacrifice for mankind, we are His creation and He took on the responsibility of being the sacrificial lamb for mankind. Christ's sacrifice was no ritual, no previous sacrifice had ever risen from the dead.

GC

Oh, we understand.  We just don't buy it.

[vorlon13]

Except for God/Jesus themself(ves), there has never been a father/son relationship like theirs. Describing it as "father/son" is clearly giving believers the wrong idea about what is actually intended. And having the wrong idea in mind while 'believing' would negate the possibility of Salvation.

Without a clear and accurate description of what is expected of believers in regards to the substance of their beliefs, there is no possibility of Salvation. Believing in the 'correct' Jesus for instance, with the additional caveat He was (pick one) Eskimo, gay, Patagonian, Jehovah's Witness, Pastafarian, etc. will NOT secure Salvation. Similarly, being all muddled and confused and mistaken about Jesus and God's fundamental and intrinsic nature is a guaranteed ticket to Hell, regardless of your sincerity of belief.