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Better terminology for "Father and Son" ?
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(August 6, 2017 at 5:24 am)Cyberman Wrote: Excellent. And there's my concern with the descriptive: father and son. No such human relationship has ever occurred or can occur. And describing it as "father and son" is definitely confusing the religious folks. And this is a grave matter of concern to them (or should be) as 'not doing it right' particularly in this regard is heresy or apostasy. And we all know heretics and apostates don't merit Salvation. And heretics and apostates are already occupying too much of our time and efforts here at Atheist Forums that could be better spent refuting folks actually "doing it right" and who are proselyting for the One True Faith. Squabbles between atheists and heretics don't advance our core mission, after all. Heretics are damned as much as we are. The granting of a pardon is an imputation of guilt, and the acceptance a confession of it.
(August 5, 2017 at 3:16 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: well this is part of my ongoing effort to help the believers to 'up their game' as it were, that someday we might have one here worthy of our atheist attentions in refuting an actual contender for The One True Faith. We were ahead of you long ago, you've never given anything worth hearing, so being worthy of an argument is completely out. The father, Son and Holy Spirit are and have always been. Jesus called God the Father both God and Father and referred to himself as Son. We Christians have no problem distinguishing between the three of the Triune God. The problems is with you and the other atheist here, it really isn't hard if you gave it a little bit of effort. GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
(August 5, 2017 at 2:59 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: For God and Jesus. Father and Son. Think about it. Their relationship is fundamentally different than any human father and son EVER. Use of the phrase, to me, seems to deny the scope/extent/degree/nature of their relationship and misleads those attempting to be faithful to them. Suffice it to say the father and son concept can only result from some enormously disturbed psychology dredging to the deepest bilge of its psychopathology and exposing to light what is found adhering to the very bottom there. (August 7, 2017 at 8:21 pm)Godscreated Wrote:No Father would have his son murdered because other peoples kids misbehaved. Like the Parah Adumah being raised by cattle breeders to use as a sacrifice for the Third Temple, Jesus was more like livestock raised by a cattleman for ritual slaughter. So a breeder / chattel relationship is more accurate.(August 5, 2017 at 3:16 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: well this is part of my ongoing effort to help the believers to 'up their game' as it were, that someday we might have one here worthy of our atheist attentions in refuting an actual contender for The One True Faith.
God thinks it's fun to confuse primates. Larsen's God!
(August 6, 2017 at 5:24 am)Cyberman Wrote: LOL, and this is pretty standard Protestant/Catholic understanding. I'm trying to imagine a Mormon version and I'm failing . . . . The granting of a pardon is an imputation of guilt, and the acceptance a confession of it.
(August 7, 2017 at 8:38 pm)chimp3 Wrote:(August 7, 2017 at 8:21 pm)Godscreated Wrote: We were ahead of you long ago, you've never given anything worth hearing, so being worthy of an argument is completely out.No Father would have his son murdered because other peoples kids misbehaved. Like the Parah Adumah being raised by cattle breeders to use as a sacrifice for the Third Temple, Jesus was more like livestock raised by a cattleman for ritual slaughter. So a breeder / chattel relationship is more accurate. You have mistakes probably from misunderstanding. Christ was certainly referred to as the Lamb of God because lambs where the sacrifice the at the Passover in Egypt. Jesus was/is God, God in the flesh and was no animal lead to the slaughter, He volunteered to be the sacrifice for mankind, we are His creation and He took on the responsibility of being the sacrificial lamb for mankind. Christ's sacrifice was no ritual, no previous sacrifice had ever risen from the dead. GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
(August 8, 2017 at 9:39 am)Godscreated Wrote:Pretty sick shit! Sick when that myth was generated and sick when repeated by you.(August 7, 2017 at 8:38 pm)chimp3 Wrote: No Father would have his son murdered because other peoples kids misbehaved. Like the Parah Adumah being raised by cattle breeders to use as a sacrifice for the Third Temple, Jesus was more like livestock raised by a cattleman for ritual slaughter. So a breeder / chattel relationship is more accurate.
God thinks it's fun to confuse primates. Larsen's God!
(August 8, 2017 at 9:39 am)Godscreated Wrote:(August 7, 2017 at 8:38 pm)chimp3 Wrote: No Father would have his son murdered because other peoples kids misbehaved. Like the Parah Adumah being raised by cattle breeders to use as a sacrifice for the Third Temple, Jesus was more like livestock raised by a cattleman for ritual slaughter. So a breeder / chattel relationship is more accurate. Oh, we understand. We just don't buy it.
"The last superstition of the human mind is the superstition that religion in itself is a good thing." - Samuel Porter Putnam
RE: Better terminology for "Father and Son" ?
August 8, 2017 at 1:56 pm
(This post was last modified: August 8, 2017 at 1:57 pm by vorlon13.)
Except for God/Jesus themself(ves), there has never been a father/son relationship like theirs. Describing it as "father/son" is clearly giving believers the wrong idea about what is actually intended. And having the wrong idea in mind while 'believing' would negate the possibility of Salvation.
Without a clear and accurate description of what is expected of believers in regards to the substance of their beliefs, there is no possibility of Salvation. Believing in the 'correct' Jesus for instance, with the additional caveat He was (pick one) Eskimo, gay, Patagonian, Jehovah's Witness, Pastafarian, etc. will NOT secure Salvation. Similarly, being all muddled and confused and mistaken about Jesus and God's fundamental and intrinsic nature is a guaranteed ticket to Hell, regardless of your sincerity of belief. The granting of a pardon is an imputation of guilt, and the acceptance a confession of it.
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