Vaccination exemption in CA, personal down, medical up

[Catholic_Lady]

Wow, so for the record, you endorse infanticide. OK then. As an atheist I find that position morally repulsive and it has changed my perception of you forever.

Lol right. That's exactly what I said.

Oh really?? Darn...

[Rev. Rye]

Wow, so for the record, you endorse infanticide. OK then. As an atheist I find that position morally repulsive and it has changed my perception of you forever.

I think she was talking about differentiation of motives, like how the scaremongering in the Anti-vaccination movement (at least in America, unlike those pockets of the Muslim world where extremists fight efforts to eradicate polio because they’re afraid it’s part of some genocide plot) and more to people spreading information that’s misleading, if not outright wrong (which is the case more often than not). Unfortunately, it seems her libertarian ideals have led her to give the anti-vaxxers far more benefit of the doubt than they really merit. She’s really a thoughtful person, but sadly, her thoughtfulness doesn’t always translate into thinking things through. Emotion has its place, but sometimes you have to step back and think through it all and see if what you’re advocating is all that morally or intellectually sound. To revise an old Fritz Lang quote “the mediator between the hands and the heart must be the head.”

[Abaddon_ire]

Wow, so for the record, you endorse infanticide. OK then. As an atheist I find that position morally repulsive and it has changed my perception of you forever.

I think she was talking about differentiation of motives, like how the scaremongering in the Anti-vaccination movement (at least in America, unlike those pockets of the Muslim world where extremists fight efforts to eradicate polio because they’re afraid it’s part of some genocide plot) and more to people spreading information that’s misleading, if not outright wrong (which is the case more often than not). Unfortunately, it seems her libertarian ideals have led her to give the anti-vaxxers far more benefit of the doubt than they really merit. She’s really a thoughtful person, but sadly, her thoughtfulness doesn’t always translate into thinking things through. Emotion has its place, but sometimes you have to step back and think through it all and see if what you’re advocating is all that morally or intellectually sound. To revise an old Fritz Lang quote “the mediator between the hands and the heart must be the head.”

Well, I'm sorry. It came across as a dodge. The Schaibles murdered two of their children because of christianity. They are not an isolated case. While I would agree that CL is amenable, nothing in her response addressed the question asked. Why is that?

[Catholic_Lady]

I think she was talking about differentiation of motives, like how the scaremongering in the Anti-vaccination movement (at least in America, unlike those pockets of the Muslim world where extremists fight efforts to eradicate polio because they’re afraid it’s part of some genocide plot) and more to people spreading information that’s misleading, if not outright wrong (which is the case more often than not). Unfortunately, it seems her libertarian ideals have led her to give the anti-vaxxers far more benefit of the doubt than they really merit. She’s really a thoughtful person, but sadly, her thoughtfulness doesn’t always translate into thinking things through. Emotion has its place, but sometimes you have to step back and think through it all and see if what you’re advocating is all that morally or intellectually sound. To revise an old Fritz Lang quote “the mediator between the hands and the heart must be the head.”

Well, I'm sorry. It came across as a dodge. The Schaibles murdered two of their children because of christianity. They are not an isolated case. While I would agree that CL is amenable, nothing in her response addressed the question asked. Why is that?

I honestly don't even know what you are talking about or why you brought religion into the argument. It's pretty bizarre considering I never said a word about religion on this thread. You brought it up to me randomly and I'm not sure what you were expecting to prove to me by doing so.

---

Wow, so for the record, you endorse infanticide. OK then. As an atheist I find that position morally repulsive and it has changed my perception of you forever.

I think she was talking about differentiation of motives, like how the scaremongering in the Anti-vaccination movement (at least in America, unlike those pockets of the Muslim world where extremists fight efforts to eradicate polio because they’re afraid it’s part of some genocide plot) and more to people spreading information that’s misleading, if not outright wrong (which is the case more often than not). Unfortunately, it seems her libertarian ideals have led her to give the anti-vaxxers far more benefit of the doubt than they really merit. She’s really a thoughtful person, but sadly, her thoughtfulness doesn’t always translate into thinking things through. Emotion has its place, but sometimes you have to step back and think through it all and see if what you’re advocating is all that morally or intellectually sound. To revise an old Fritz Lang quote “the mediator between the hands and the heart must be the head.”

We are talking about anti vaxxers in this thread (not a word about religion) and he randomly throws religion in my face out of nowhere and links to a story about parents who's kid died because they didn't take him to the doctor when they were sick.

I'm not sure what his point was or what he was expecting to prove to me in this particular discussion.

[pocaracas]

Sorry for jumping in

Even if it means the potential death of that person's child?

How much potential though? No parent declines vaccinating their kid while knowing there's a big risk they might die from it.

Totally agree.

Instead they think the risk of the vaccine itself is greater than the risk of the child catching a deadly disease and dying from it.

This point of view mystifies me.
Where do these parents get their statistics from that would lead them to think this way?
When vaccines were first introduced, infant mortality related to the diseases targeted by the vaccines steadily decreased.

Then, some schmuck doctor puts out a paper where he wrongfully correlates vaccination with autism.... at a time when nearly everyone is vaccinated... and the gullible idiots eat it up... even though the same doctor has since retracted his paper. And now a whole stupid movement is out there...

Anyway, where I come from, you can't enroll at daycare, school, not even college without an up to date vaccination card. Vaccination itself was never mandatory, I think. But school is. So... vaccination ends up being compulsory.
Exceptions exist, of course.... some people are allergic, some are this, some are that... but they are properly reasonable exceptions.
But, since everyone else is vaccinated, these exceptions get the benefit of herd immunity.

This movement of stupid parents that are punching holes in the web of herd immunity is only making these exceptions that can't get vaccines much more vulnerable than they already were, while, for he most part not feeling any ill effects of not vaccinating, precisely due to herd immunity.
However, I think I've seen some stats on regions where this movement has taken a foot hold and some half forgotten diseases are on the rise in those communities.
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/...05806.html
""
“However, if vaccination rates fall it is relatively easy for infectious diseases to re-establish themselves, especially the highly contagious ones like measles and diphtheria,” she warns. “The UK experienced a significant measles outbreak in 2012 and 2013 - particularly in South Wales - caused by a dip in MMR vaccination rates in the early 2000s. In 2012 there were 2,016 cases of measles in the UK. In the first six months of 2013 there were a further 1,287 cases of measles; 257 of these people were admitted to hospital, including 39 with serious complications such as pneumonia, meningitis and gastroenteritis, and one young man died of measles complications.
""
""
“The anti vaccine movement is very dangerous."They are also completely misinformed and believe that doctors make money by giving vaccines. The truth is that the cost to physicians and health organisations is enormous. In the US, doctors and hospitals have to purchase vaccinations up front. They then have to store them and administer them. If the vaccines go unused, they lose money. Vaccine costs go up exponentially and this is actually a reason many private practice physicians have closed their practices. The cost for them to keep their patients healthy is unrealistic."

"They are insidious as they plant false ideas into the minds of worried parents. The irony is that they all survived because they were vaccinated and did not succumb to common childhood illnesses that cause death or permanent disability. They shouldn't be given a platform in the interest of balance. It's a bit like climate change. We have to move away from framing every scientific discussion as though it were a political issue with two equal sides."

Asked what the public needs to take away from immunisation week, Larson adds: “Vaccines are one of the best health inventions in history, and have saved millions of lives. They are not perfect, and they will never be perfect.

“But, as with all science and health interventions, you need to keep aspiring to improve what you have to make it better. And in the meantime use the best tools we have to prevent disease and save lives."
""

[Catholic_Lady]

If you wanna know their point of view, you can probably just Google it and find out. Specifically, Google Dr Ben Lynch. I know he's gotten a lot of crap for being an anti vax doctor, but it might be interesting to read his arguments against it.

[pocaracas]

If you wanna know their point of view, you can probably just Google it and find out. Specifically, Google Dr Ben Lynch. I know he's gotten a lot of crap for being an anti vax doctor, but it might be interesting to read his arguments against it.

Something tells me I'll lose a few braincells by reading that, but thank you!

[brewer]

If you wanna know their point of view, you can probably just Google it and find out. Specifically, Google Dr Ben Lynch. I know he's gotten a lot of crap for being an anti vax doctor, but it might be interesting to read his arguments against it.

Just shoot me now.

[Catholic_Lady]

It's always good to understand your opponent's POV.

[pocaracas]

Holy shitttttttttttt!

https://www.drbenlynch.com/vaccinesdirtygene/
"Dirty genes. What are they? A dirty gene is a gene that doesn’t perform its ability to function very well. How does that happen? Lifestyle, diet, environment, mindset, and so on. "

"
What happens if your DHPR gene isn’t working well?
It can cause mental retardation, epilepsy, total abnormalities, fever without infections and swallowing difficulties to name a few.
Dihydropteridine Reductase deficiency is a genetic condition, but even if you don’t inherit the condition, you can still make the gene dirty which causes a similar effect.
How does it get dirty? Through aluminum, What’s one of the ingredients in most vaccines, aluminum.
"
And somewhere below:
"Get Dr Lynch’s “26 Steps to Clean Genes”"

LOL!
I knew I was going to lose braincells reading this stuff!!

Hey doc! You know what else has Aluminum? Your computer, your phone, your window frames, any drinking can, ladders are often made of it, ... oh, and aluminum foil! to make tin hats!
Let's not vaccinate kids, just on the off chance that they may have what this guy calls a "dirty gene"... -.-'
Of course he "forgets" to say how often those genes occur.