Seeds: Rebellion against the clergy - part 1.

[henryp]

MK, have you considered this isn't the right group of people for you to be discussing this stuff with? Predominantly, this isn't just a forum of random Atheists. It's a predominantly a pretty narrow subset of Atheists. And among the traits, is that they aren't going to genuinely listen to what you say, or engage you in any discourse of value.

Practically speaking, in terms of developing your own beliefs, and if you're interested in convincing others of them, you should probably try and find a different community to post in.

I say this as someone who appreciates the work you put into your belief system.

[drfuzzy]

Exactly WHAT effect are these disgusting walls of delusional text supposed to be causing here?  Other than making us a little nauseous and convinced that you are in desperate need of good medication, that is.

[The Grand Nudger]

MK, have you considered this isn't the right group of people for you to be discussing this stuff with?  Predominantly, this isn't just a forum of random Atheists.  It's a predominantly a pretty narrow subset of Atheists.  And among the traits, is that they aren't going to genuinely listen to what you say, or engage you in any discourse of value.  

Practically speaking, in terms of developing your own beliefs, and if you're interested in convincing others of them, you should probably try and find a different community to post in.  

I say this as someone who appreciates the work you put into your belief system.

Ridiculous.  I miss engaging with MK in "discourse of value", which is precisely -why- I don't bother with the nutter shit the shell of MK has been reduced to. He was a believer before he had a psychotic break and got sent to madrasa (or hit his head, or got the muhamed beat into him..or honestly, whatever fucking horrible thing destroyed him and left this in front of us). He had the ability, then, to carry on a conversation as though he were a human being. Now he's a twelver automaton, telling other people what they worship and trying to define his silly little ghosts into existence via walls of gibberish about it's name and face and chosen prince.

There's no discourse of value to be had in that.

[downbeatplumb]

[quote='downbeatplumb' pid='1634285' dateline='1507554478']

Why is worship needed for value to exist! they aren't the same thing or indeed related in any way, I value my family but I don't worship them.

There are levels of value. The highest thing we value by definition is what we worship. Worship is relative to how much we value things.

That right there is wrong. Worship has nothing to do with value.

It's not the amount of a non-relative sense since there is no limit to how much in that sense we should love our parents or humans let alone God. It's not a set amount that makes the valuing worship.

What are you talking about? seriously that made no sense.

It's rather a relativity. The word "god" means a being that ought to be valued relative to the highest degree by which other things pale in comparison.

I love my children equally no need to "rate their value".whatever that is  

Revering humans that are exalted and reached such stations is ok. Worship is a much higher level of reverence.

Some people want to worship I suppose. I guess its a hobby.

If you value anything, you by definition worship something.

Worship has nothing to do with value.

value
[ˈvaljuː]



NOUN

1. the regard that something is held to deserve; the importance, worth, or usefulness of something:
   "your support is of great value"
   synonyms: merit · worth · usefulness · use · utility · practicality · advantage ·
   [More]
   desirability · benefit · gain · profit · good · service · help · helpfulness · assistance · effectiveness · efficacy · avail · importance · significance · point · sense · mileage
   • the material or monetary worth of something:
     "prints seldom rise in value" ·
     [More]
     
     "equipment is included up to a total value of £500"
     
     synonyms: price · cost · worth · market price · selling price · asking price ·
     [More]
     monetary value · face value
     
   • the worth of something compared to the price paid or asked for it:
     "at £12.50 the book is good value" ·
     [More]
     
     "the wine represents a good value for $17.95"
     
     synonyms: price · cost · worth · market price · selling price · asking price ·
     [More]
     monetary value · face value
     
2. (values)
   
   principles or standards of behaviour; one's judgement of what is important in life:
   "they internalize their parents' rules and values"
   synonyms: principles · moral principles · ethics · moral code · morals ·
   [More]
   moral values · standards · moral standards · code of behaviour · rules of conduct · standards of behaviour
   
3. the numerical amount denoted by an algebraic term; a magnitude, quantity, or number:
   "the mean value of x"
   
4. music
   
   the relative duration of the sound signified by a note.
   
5. linguistics
   
   the meaning of a word or other linguistic unit.
   • the quality or tone of a spoken sound; the sound represented by a letter.
     
6. the relative degree of lightness or darkness of a particular colour:
   "the artist has used adjacent colour values as the landscape recedes"
   

VERB
values (third person present) · valued (past tense) · valued (past participle) · valuing (present participle)

1. estimate the monetary worth of:
   "his estate was valued at £45,000"
   synonyms: evaluate · assess · estimate · appraise · assay · rate · price ·
   [More]
   put/set a price on · cost (out)
   
2. consider (someone or something) to be important or beneficial; have a high opinion of:
   "she had come to value her privacy"
   synonyms: cherished · treasured · dear · prized · favourite · precious ·
   [More
   
   

worship isn't even a synonym of value.

  This doesn't matter whether a supernatural being exists or not.

But the fact is people are too ashamed to say they worship themselves or family or others or desires or goals they have, should tell you our nature is to Worship a perfect absolute being with no partners, and that God is the ultimate goal we all believe in.

Stop trying to shoehorn in worship where it doesn't go.

Whether such a being exists is another thing, but it tells you that our nature out of all possible things, at the very least, we are ashamed of worshiping other than him. Atheists can even argue this is why we believe in God, because we are inclined to value and love without limits, so deceive ourselves such a being exists.

You believe in god because you want to believe in god.

But I say by definition we value something, and when we want to value something most, we should really know what wins our heart, and I am not letting anything but God enter my heart, and not approaching him save through his name and door he manifests and proves to me.

In that case you are wasting your life.
That's ok, its yours to waste, as long as you don't bother anyone else or try to impose your views on anyone else you can believe whatever silly thing you want.

[Brian37]

MK, that first line of you post is disturbing considering the title of your thread.

Christians think they are fighting for the right club, and they too think everyone should follow their God. It pisses me off that both of you don't seem to understand that is the problem.

The world doesn't need more heros or rebellions. The world needs more non violence.

[downbeatplumb]

MK, have you considered this isn't the right group of people for you to be discussing this stuff with?  Predominantly, this isn't just a forum of random Atheists.  It's a predominantly a pretty narrow subset of Atheists.  And among the traits, is that they aren't going to genuinely listen to what you say, or engage you in any discourse of value.  

Practically speaking, in terms of developing your own beliefs, and if you're interested in convincing others of them, you should probably try and find a different community to post in.  

I say this as someone who appreciates the work you put into your belief system.

Ridiculous.  I miss engaging with MK in "discourse of value", which is precisely -why- I don't bother with the nutter shit the shell of MK has been reduced to.  He was a believer before he had a psychotic break and got sent to madrasa (or hit his head, or got the muhamed beat into him..or honestly, whatever fucking horrible thing destroyed him and left this in front of us).   He had the ability, then, to carry on a conversation as though he were a human being.  Now he's a twelver automaton, telling other people what they worship and trying to define his silly little ghosts into existence via walls of gibberish about it's name and face and chosen prince.  

There's no discourse of value to be had in that.

Yes, he used to be ok but something happened that changed him.

[Brian37]

Ridiculous.  I miss engaging with MK in "discourse of value", which is precisely -why- I don't bother with the nutter shit the shell of MK has been reduced to.  He was a believer before he had a psychotic break and got sent to madrasa (or hit his head, or got the muhamed beat into him..or honestly, whatever fucking horrible thing destroyed him and left this in front of us).   He had the ability, then, to carry on a conversation as though he were a human being.  Now he's a twelver automaton, telling other people what they worship and trying to define his silly little ghosts into existence via walls of gibberish about it's name and face and chosen prince.  

There's no discourse of value to be had in that.

Yes, he used to be ok but something happened that changed him.

If he is a typical young adult who got hurt then angry like I was, then something in his personal life. I know how romantic and angst ridden I was. Hormones and ideology are not a good combo.

[henryp]

MK, have you considered this isn't the right group of people for you to be discussing this stuff with?  Predominantly, this isn't just a forum of random Atheists.  It's a predominantly a pretty narrow subset of Atheists.  And among the traits, is that they aren't going to genuinely listen to what you say, or engage you in any discourse of value.  

Practically speaking, in terms of developing your own beliefs, and if you're interested in convincing others of them, you should probably try and find a different community to post in.  

I say this as someone who appreciates the work you put into your belief system.

Ridiculous.  I miss engaging with MK in "discourse of value", which is precisely -why- I don't bother with the nutter shit the shell of MK has been reduced to.  He was a believer before he had a psychotic break and got sent to madrasa (or hit his head, or got the muhamed beat into him..or honestly, whatever fucking horrible thing destroyed him and left this in front of us).   He had the ability, then, to carry on a conversation as though he were a human being.  Now he's a twelver automaton, telling other people what they worship and trying to define his silly little ghosts into existence via walls of gibberish about it's name and face and chosen prince.  

There's no discourse of value to be had in that.

You think discourse with you could have value.  As an uninvested 3rd party, I'd say you're badly mistaken.

[The Grand Nudger]

Is that really the most convincing way to respond to being called out for shitposting? 

[Edwardo Piet]

You're delusional, MK, are you would be happier if you were able to lose your belief without worrying about the consequences of that. 

If the love of God and a sense of accountability to this being will make me sad, then so be it, he by definition is totally worth it and he is worth everything we can possibly endure in his obedience.

Imaginary friends are not worth misery.