Two scenarios that may/may not happen.

[Cyberman]

Interestingly, the number of historians that think Jesus never existed is actually growing.

[The Grand Nudger]

A fun question, Ray, particularly in light of a crisis of faith and a version of your religion without any actual god;  

What is the value, to your christless religion, of either character having been historical? Do they need to be real for the message to be worthwhile..and what is the message?

[Amarok]

History is not a popularity contest . It's weather something the historic method the case for Jesus has failed this on every level . And the myth position (a totally academic and peer reviewed  class of idea's) has passed .

[Harry Nevis]

1.  If evolution were suddenly proven false that would still not provide one scintilla of evidence that the bible bullshit story is "true."

2.  Please don't give me the "all historians agree" horseshit.  They do not.  And when you ask what evidence is used to base their conclusion what you end up with is a regurgitation of the same old gospel shit which no real historian would ever consider historical evidence.

Please don't tell me what I can and can't write here, okay? good!  Now, I didn't say "all historians agree", what I said was " a good number of historians" that's different. And the Gospels are indeed historical materials; you don't have to be a Christian to accept that. Now are all the things written in them as true, some yes and some no, but you don't dismiss entire books just because you happen to not agree with what they say. History is full of documents that are not 100% accurate. Nevertheless, they're used by historians.

But historians know the difference between corroborated historical fact and blather about the supernatural.

---

You made claim to facts that support your religion.  I'd like to see at least one of them.

That (Historical Jesus) existed that someone called Paul existed, that he wrote several of the epistles (not all), the earliest of them was in the 50s of the first century. That there were early Christians in Jerusalem that claimed their leader was the Messiah, and that he rose from the dead. Now did he rise? That's something the historians are in dispute about.

The "Jesus, Paul, and disciples never existed" is just something that is popular by folks that are into either conspiracy theory or would rather take the easy way out.

Facts? Historians don't debate how jesus rose from the dead. He didn't. They do debate his existence.

[mordant]

Interestingly, the number of historians that think Jesus never existed is actually growing.

Yes.

I personally am convinced that Jesus of Nazareth (the historical person) is likely either a complete fiction or a composite character. Jesus the miracle-working god-man can of course be rejected out of hand since that which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

That is not to say that some intelligent people don't make a decent case for an historical Jesus (Bart Erhman being one of them last I knew); it's just to say I'm not persuaded.

For me the key is reading the NT in the rough chronological order it was written in. The earliest stuff that's closest in time to the alleged life of Christ (certain of Paul's letters), when read without the re-framing assumptions of the much later gospel mythos, raises certain interesting questions. Why does Paul mostly talk about a celestial being "seated in the heavenlies"? Why no specifics of his earthly ministry? Why no appeal to living eyewitnesses to validate Paul's teachings about Christ, but rather, to a personal subjective experience in the form of a heavenly vision?

Reading the NT this way also makes the gospels look much more like corrective proto-orthodoxy to try to undo Paul's proto-gnosticism.

But ... as others have pointed out, this is not really a very interesting question. Answering it one way or the other doesn't change anything of substance unless maybe you're a fundamentalist Bibliolater of some kind whose whole world flies apart if every jot and tittle of scripture isn't literally true and inerrant.

[ignoramus]

Ray. Most here are ex Christians. Most here are sceptics.
We don't believe in woo ...religious or otherwise.
I hate religion like I hate the Death Star!

Ray, do you believe in non religious woo? Fairies?, healing crystals? Astrology?
We don't believe in miracles or supernatural stuff (read Disney magic), therefore we don't believe in the business end of the bible?
Sure it's got some entertaining stories with talking snakes and donkeys, but they can't offer you the golden carrot, the afterlife, based on that alone.
This is why the mechanics of religion cannot function without indoctrination at a young age where the mind believes what it is told by the parents.
If you're questioning your faith now, then you didn't drink enough koolaid, or you didn't like the flavour.
And if you ever become an atheist, you'll also be told that you were never a real God boy, like they do to us...

[Wyrd of Gawd]

Interestingly, the number of historians that think Jesus never existed is actually growing.

There was no one named "Jesus" before 1630 when two con men created the character by that name.

[Cyberman]

I know, you keep on saying that.

[Succubus]

Interestingly, the number of historians that think Jesus never existed is actually growing.

There was no one named "Jesus" before 1630 when two con men created the character by that name.

Yes, I too would like some clarification.

[Little Rik]

Those who read my thread on the Introduction section know that I'm struggling with my Christian faith. However, I'm not calling myself Atheist yet, even though there are days when I really want to, but try to hang in there for a bit longer.
 
Two scenarios that usually come to my mind when I think of regarding two issues, 1) The theory of Evolution, 2) Jesus existence and his followers in the first century.
 
The first, being the guy of "hypothetical situations" which I'm known to family and friends, I wonder if the theory of Evolution was ever "proven" wrong, even though so far barely any of that happened, but considering that science demands that any hypothesis be falsifiable, there is a small chance that the theory of Evolution may be turned upside down, but as I said, this is just a hypothetical situation. So, based on that, does it follow that the creation story in the Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) is true? Would your atheism be "shaken" if such far stretching hypothetical situation ever became a reality? And why?
 
The second issue regarding Christ's existence.  I'm less enthusiastic to accept the claim that Jesus never existed. A good number of historians agree that he lived, also considering what I learned so far about history at university, we can't be 100% sure, after all, history is subjective. History is based on records from people who have their own agendas and biases, and it is a fact that they chose what or include and not include in their writings, it doesn't follow that something didn't happen or a person didn't exist just because some writings don't include such event or person. Also, there are chances that in the future we may find a good and reliable evidence for people that believed never to have existed. Therefore, it is safe not to be so "sure." What do you think of such argument?

I give you a bit of advice Ray.

First remember that in this forum you are dealing with people that think that the universe pop up as per magic
and nobody run it so is all up in the air.
There is no evidence for anything.
It is all a magic universe in which nothing works as per logic.
But it rather works if it suit atheists way of thinking.
The logic doesn't exist in here.

Second talking about the evolution.

Most religious people believe only in creation although more and more open mind people now come to the conclusion that evolution is also real.

Atheists instead believe only in evolution.

I on the other hand believe that creation and evolution go hand in hand.

We born from our parents and at the same time we evolve into adults so both creation and evolution are real.
Our consciousness was not given by our parents.
It evolved from lower forms of lives but the initial start was a God creation.