Wanted: Christians who reject the supernatural and a literal afterlife.

[Whateverist]

A professing christian simply cannot be what you're looking for, is all, Whatevs.  

They might call themselves christian for some godforsaken reason....but they simply would meet not the -very- lenient qualifications for the title.  They wouldn;t even fit as the more general "theist"...and probably not a "deist" for that matter.  Hell, with a rejection of the supernatural even animism is off the table.

None of this, is for reasons of disagreeing with me about gods, or spirits, or afterlives, or the supernatural.

That's certainly possible.  Perhaps Purplundy and anyone else who reads the bible allegorically is simply confused and suffering an identity crisis.  Nonetheless, I'd rather discuss religion with them than with these dumbasses who quote scripture as if they were pleading precedents in a legal case.  Boring.  Obviously wrong.  Low lying fruit.  No point in talking to 'true' xtians then.

[Crossless2.0]

Not all Christians throughout history have been Pauline-style Christians.

Duh.

Yeah, you're right. Jesus never talked about an afterlife. That's a purely Pauline concept. What was I thinking?

He might have. He's characterized as having done so. *shrug*

Jews had a number of ideas about death, including many who didn't believe in an afterlife at all. You're stuck on some idea of a Christian as being orthodox in her beliefs (dying/resurrected savior, Heaven, etc.). It's not inconceivable that a theist could self-identify as Christian simply on the basis of Jesus' alleged moral teachings but not buy into his eschatological nonsense or his talk of The Kingdom, if understood to refer to Heaven and an afterlife.

I don't really see much point in that, but again . . . it's not inconceivable.

I fastened on Paul because you brought him up. If she doesn't recognize Paul as an authority, then his so-called argument in 1 Cor. 15 would likely not be persuasive. And it's possible that she might have viewed Jesus as an exemplary figure without believing him to be God (or God's son) or believing every word attributed to him to be (pardon the pun) Gospel truth.

[The Grand Nudger]

That's certainly possible.  Perhaps Purplundy and anyone else who reads the bible allegorically is simply confused and suffering an identity crisis.  Nonetheless, I'd rather discuss religion with them than with these dumbasses who quote scripture as if they were pleading precedents in a legal case.  Boring.  Obviously wrong.  Low lying fruit.  No point in talking to 'true' xtians then.

Nah, a christian can read the bible allegorically, just not all of it.  The christ bits sort of have to be taken to be true......to be christian.

I think that, often enough, the people who read this or that part allegorically and yet still insist on some meaningful truth are...not so much wrong, as imparting whatever truth there is to their statements to the text. It's probably not there, in the text, and their allegorical reading is likely to jump to some literal point without warning.

I've suggested this to my better half on more than one occasion, whn she asks me why I don;t see goodness in this or that verse. I tell her, that I see the goodness in her, which she lends the text, and that because of the goodness in her...she doesn;t see the shittyness, and that all of this is to be expected.

[drfuzzy]

I just left the gym where I worked out with a very liberal-minded Catholic friend.  She does not believe that the Bible was written or inspired by God.  She calls it "our little book of history stories".  She does not believe that hell exists.  The ideas of a virgin birth and a resurrection are laughable to her.  She does believe in god, she does believe in an afterlife of some sort or another, and she thinks that god inspired Jesus's teachings.  She goes to church because she has always gone to church, and her friends are there.
    I think she's one step away from atheism, myself, but I don't push.  She's bright and good company.

[Whateverist]

Yeah, when anyone reads anything allegorically they're definitely pulling that meaning out of their own .. uh .. head. But that still recommends them as someone more worthwhile talking to about religion than the ones we all know are full of shit.

[The Grand Nudger]

Lemme give you one of my favorite examples, Whatevs.  In the gospels...the story of the faith of a canaanite woman (fuckin matthew somewhere).  You'll appreciate this, because jesus allegorically calls a woman a bitch, and she runs with it..because she's got her kid in mind.  

My wife could feel this story, she could understand the motivations and comments of this woman in this story.  She's not convinced that it's a transcript from some ancient associated press interview, lol.  

Nevertheless, even as allegory, jesus allegorically calls a woman a bitch, in the strongest sense, for having been born of the wrong tribe.  She has to haggle for her daughters life and/or soul. Because the little girl gets healed in the end, it;s a good story. The allegorical takeaway for her is that jesus, or the healing power of christ..or redemption..it isn't limited to a specific tribe. For her, it might even be considered a story in which some random female calls jesus on his bullshit (which it is, even allegorically).

Alls well that ends well, and maybe sometimes you gotta remind a guy who he's fuckin with.

[John V]

He might have. He's characterized as having done so. *shrug*

Jews had a number of ideas about death, including many who didn't believe in an afterlife at all. You're stuck on some idea of a Christian as being orthodox in her beliefs (dying/resurrected savior, Heaven, etc.). It's not inconceivable that a theist could self-identify as Christian simply on the basis of Jesus' alleged moral teachings but not buy into his eschatological nonsense or his talk of The Kingdom, if understood to refer to Heaven and an afterlife.

I don't really see much point in that, but again . . . it's not inconceivable.

I fastened on Paul because you brought him up. If she doesn't recognize Paul as an authority, then his so-called argument in 1 Cor. 15 would likely not be persuasive. And it's possible that she might have viewed Jesus as an exemplary figure without believing him to be God (or God's son) or believing every word attributed to him to be (pardon the pun) Gospel truth.

I noted the 1 Cor passage because I read it recently and it was the first to come to mind. Jesus also addressed the issue. You're right in that some Jews, such as the Sadducees, didn't believe in an afterlife. You're forgetting that Jesus specifically refuted them in Matthew 22.

It's conceivable that someone can reject the foundations of Christianity and call themselves a Christian. As noted, I've met one. But just because such people exist doesn't make their interpretation reasonable.

[Whateverist]

I just left the gym where I worked out with a very liberal-minded Catholic friend.  She does not believe that the Bible was written or inspired by God.  She calls it "our little book of history stories".  She does not believe that hell exists.  The ideas of a virgin birth and a resurrection are laughable to her.  She does believe in god, she does believe in an afterlife of some sort or another, and she thinks that god inspired Jesus's teachings.  She goes to church because she has always gone to church, and her friends are there.
    I think she's one step away from atheism, myself, but I don't push.  She's bright and good company.

I'd much rather talk with her about religion than any theist we have around here these days.  

I wonder how she conceives of god.  Still a personal, literal afterlife is a non-starter.

---

Lemme give you one of my favorite examples, Whatevs.  In the gospels...the story of the faith of a canaanite woman (fuckin matthew somewhere).  You'll appreciate this, because jesus allegorically calls a woman a bitch, and she runs with it..because she's got her kid in mind.  

My wife could feel this story, she could understand the motivations and comments of this woman in this story.  She's not convinced that it's a transcript from some ancient associated press interview, lol.  

Nevertheless, even as allegory, jesus allegorically calls a woman a bitch, in the strongest sense, for having been born of the wrong tribe.  She has to haggle for her daughters life and/or soul.  Because the little girl gets healed in the end, it;s a good story. The allegorical takeaway for her is that jesus, or the healing power of christ..or redemption..it isn't limited to a specific tribe.   For her, it might even be considered a story in which some random female calls jesus on his bullshit (which it is, even allegorically).

Alls well that ends well.

I wonder if Jesus Christ has ever been on the Jerry Springer show.

[Crossless2.0]

He might have. He's characterized as having done so. *shrug*

Jews had a number of ideas about death, including many who didn't believe in an afterlife at all. You're stuck on some idea of a Christian as being orthodox in her beliefs (dying/resurrected savior, Heaven, etc.). It's not inconceivable that a theist could self-identify as Christian simply on the basis of Jesus' alleged moral teachings but not buy into his eschatological nonsense or his talk of The Kingdom, if understood to refer to Heaven and an afterlife.

I don't really see much point in that, but again . . . it's not inconceivable.

I fastened on Paul because you brought him up. If she doesn't recognize Paul as an authority, then his so-called argument in 1 Cor. 15 would likely not be persuasive. And it's possible that she might have viewed Jesus as an exemplary figure without believing him to be God (or God's son) or believing every word attributed to him to be (pardon the pun) Gospel truth.

I noted the 1 Cor passage because I read it recently and it was the first to come to mind. Jesus also addressed the issue. You're right in that some Jews, such as the Sadducees, didn't believe in an afterlife. You're forgetting that Jesus specifically refuted them in Matthew 22.

It's conceivable that someone can reject the foundations of Christianity and call themselves a Christian. As noted, I've met one. But just because such people exist doesn't make their interpretation reasonable.

I tend to agree with that last sentence.

As an aside, I'd say that "refuted" is way too strong a word for what happens between Jesus and the Sadducees in Matthew 22. I'd go with 'disagreed with' and leave it at that. But then again, I don't view that Bible through the lens you use.

[The Grand Nudger]

I wonder if Jesus Christ has ever been on the Jerry Springer show.

Just a stranger on the bus? 

I'm entirely certain that he has been...allegorically, that is. His name was Cletus and he was just trying to find out who his daddy was.