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Why did god allow people to be born after the fall ?
November 2, 2017 at 9:10 pm
(This post was last modified: November 2, 2017 at 9:11 pm by possibletarian.)
For me this is simply not a problem, I believe we procreate hopefully we born in a country that allows us freedoms and then enjoy life to the full.
I have a few questions though for all who believe in original sin, given that sin had entered the world why did god allow more people to be born he could simply have stopped procreation and allowed the generation of sin to die out, just like he barred a generation of Israelites from entering the promised land because of sin.
Question 1
If he had simply stopped reproduction then only those responsible will have suffered, instead of the insanity of being born to abusers, religious nut jobs, along with death disease and suffering then he could simply have started again. We do it it with cattle, animals, even humans if they have a disease that threatens the rest of us or the rest of a heard of cattle, they isolate and often kill the diseased cattle to stop it infecting others.
I'm not asking why god allows suffering, but rather why he allowed people to be born who had not even existed before procreation to enter a world of suffering?
Question 2
If there is some kind of argument that there has to be a number god has to reach, then where are these spirits/souls before they are born into human bodies ? Do you perhaps believe in some kind of re-incarnation, or souls waiting for an incarnation ?
These really are questions for any theist, contributions though from anyone are welcome.
'Those who ask a lot of questions may seem stupid, but those who don't ask questions stay stupid'
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RE: Why did god allow people to be born after the fall ?
November 2, 2017 at 9:16 pm
Free will blah blah mysterious ways blah blah personal relationship with god blah blah companions in heaven blah blah
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RE: Why did god allow people to be born after the fall ?
November 2, 2017 at 9:17 pm
(November 2, 2017 at 9:16 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: Free will blah blah mysterious ways blah blah personal relationship with god blah blah companions in heaven blah blah
That's pretty much what i expect, but lets see 
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RE: Why did god allow people to be born after the fall ?
November 2, 2017 at 9:23 pm
I do hope you're not trying to work a prophecy, Kev. That would be... most unfortunate.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Why did god allow people to be born after the fall ?
November 2, 2017 at 10:10 pm
(November 2, 2017 at 9:10 pm)possibletarian Wrote: For me this is simply not a problem, I believe we procreate hopefully we born in a country that allows us freedoms and then enjoy life to the full.
I have a few questions though for all who believe in original sin, given that sin had entered the world why did god allow more people to be born he could simply have stopped procreation and allowed the generation of sin to die out, just like he barred a generation of Israelites from entering the promised land because of sin.
Question 1
If he had simply stopped reproduction then only those responsible will have suffered, instead of the insanity of being born to abusers, religious nut jobs, along with death disease and suffering then he could simply have started again. We do it it with cattle, animals, even humans if they have a disease that threatens the rest of us or the rest of a heard of cattle, they isolate and often kill the diseased cattle to stop it infecting others.
I'm not asking why god allows suffering, but rather why he allowed people to be born who had not even existed before procreation to enter a world of suffering?
Question 2
If there is some kind of argument that there has to be a number god has to reach, then where are these spirits/souls before they are born into human bodies ? Do you perhaps believe in some kind of re-incarnation, or souls waiting for an incarnation ?
These really are questions for any theist, contributions though from anyone are welcome.
It seems implicit in your question 1 that God was surprised by the fall. He was not. His purpose did not change because he always knew it would happen. Why in the world do you imagine that "starting over" would produce different results? Without perfect knowledge, free will will always result in sin eventually.
Regarding question 2, souls don't exist until conception.
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RE: Why did god allow people to be born after the fall ?
November 2, 2017 at 10:12 pm
(This post was last modified: November 2, 2017 at 10:18 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
He didn't just allow it, he cursed eve with childbirth. It's painfully apparent that he caught his two little darlings boning in the woods. The story is a metaphor for human folly leveraged as an origin - these two innocent youths defile themselves with each other and get cast out of their fathers garden to sweat and toil in the dust for the rest of their days until they die. The original teen pregnancy. It makes a certain amount of sense..after all, why -wouldn't- the human story begin that way when the author and his audience's human story most likely did?
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RE: Why did god allow people to be born after the fall ?
November 2, 2017 at 11:33 pm
(This post was last modified: November 2, 2017 at 11:50 pm by possibletarian.)
(November 2, 2017 at 10:10 pm)SteveII Wrote: It seems implicit in your question 1 that God was surprised by the fall.
Not at all, but that raises an even more serious question, why did he do it at all in that case, knowing his creation was going to be subject to untold suffering ?
Quote:He was not. His purpose did not change because he always knew it would happen.
Then what was his purpose ?
How do you know?
And where in the bible does god say he knew ?
Quote:Why in the world do you imagine that "starting over" would produce different results?
If sin and therefore untold suffering and evil is inevitable then what's the point of judging on the basis of free will or choice ?
Quote:Without perfect knowledge, free will will always result in sin eventually.
How could you possibly know that ?
Is there such a thing as free will ?
Quote:Regarding question 2, souls don't exist until conception.
Then as i ask, why not stop reproduction and let the ones who sinned die out? god seemed to do the opposite.
I think you think you have answered the question I asked, but you have not.
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RE: Why did god allow people to be born after the fall ?
November 3, 2017 at 12:45 am
(November 2, 2017 at 9:10 pm)possibletarian Wrote: For me this is simply not a problem, I believe we procreate hopefully we born in a country that allows us freedoms and then enjoy life to the full.
I have a few questions though for all who believe in original sin, given that sin had entered the world why did god allow more people to be born he could simply have stopped procreation and allowed the generation of sin to die out, just like he barred a generation of Israelites from entering the promised land because of sin.
Question 1
If he had simply stopped reproduction then only those responsible will have suffered, instead of the insanity of being born to abusers, religious nut jobs, along with death disease and suffering then he could simply have started again. We do it it with cattle, animals, even humans if they have a disease that threatens the rest of us or the rest of a heard of cattle, they isolate and often kill the diseased cattle to stop it infecting others.
It was God's will to continue with His creation, even though it was contaminated by sin and cursed by God. God's will is His and His purpose isn't fully known. God wants to show all that love is greater than sin and without the continuation of the creation that wouldn't be possible.
possibletarain Wrote:Question 2
If there is some kind of argument that there has to be a number god has to reach, then where are these spirits/souls before they are born into human bodies ? Do you perhaps believe in some kind of re-incarnation, or souls waiting for an incarnation ?
These really are questions for any theist, contributions though from anyone are welcome.
Souls are created for the person who is conceived, the breath of life might give you a hint that this is true.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: Why did god allow people to be born after the fall ?
November 3, 2017 at 5:36 am
(This post was last modified: November 3, 2017 at 5:37 am by possibletarian.)
(November 3, 2017 at 12:45 am)Godscreated Wrote: It was God's will to continue with His creation, even though it was contaminated by sin and cursed by God.
It wasn't god's will to continue, assuming that god is all knowing it was god's intention to create a evil suffering world from the beginning.
Quote:God's will is His and His purpose isn't fully known.
Yes the old 'his ways are not our ways' get out of jail free card. However given that why do you pretend to know what god's purpose or intention was ? Why not simply say that you do not know?
Quote:God wants to show all that love is greater than sin and without the continuation of the creation that wouldn't be possible.
Again how could you possibly know? you can't have the excuse of a mysterious unfathomable god one minute, and then know what he planned the next.
Why did he want to show his love was greater than sin, to whom? we had not even been created yet (according to the bible), if he knew we would suffer so badly isn't it a bit like a parent who tortures their child, then when in agonising pain picks it up and hugs it saying "I wanted you to know my love and compassion"
Isn't that like a co dependant god ?
Quote:Souls are created for the person who is conceived, the breath of life might give you a hint that this is true.
GC
Then that is my question, if god went through with it, it's why if those souls had not yet been touched by sin why then introduce them to it.
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RE: Why did god allow people to be born after the fall ?
November 3, 2017 at 11:54 am
(This post was last modified: November 3, 2017 at 11:57 am by John V.)
(November 2, 2017 at 9:10 pm)possibletarian Wrote: For me this is simply not a problem, I believe we procreate hopefully we born in a country that allows us freedoms and then enjoy life to the full.
I have a few questions though for all who believe in original sin, given that sin had entered the world why did god allow more people to be born he could simply have stopped procreation and allowed the generation of sin to die out, just like he barred a generation of Israelites from entering the promised land because of sin.
Question 1
If he had simply stopped reproduction then only those responsible will have suffered, instead of the insanity of being born to abusers, religious nut jobs, along with death disease and suffering then he could simply have started again. We do it it with cattle, animals, even humans if they have a disease that threatens the rest of us or the rest of a heard of cattle, they isolate and often kill the diseased cattle to stop it infecting others.
I'm not asking why god allows suffering, but rather why he allowed people to be born who had not even existed before procreation to enter a world of suffering?
So that he could have eternal fellowship with those of us who want it.
Question for OP: Do you think life in this world is a net good, despite the suffering?
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