Why did god allow people to be born after the fall ?

[The Grand Nudger]

Moral obligations-as-mortgage.  No wonder you guys manage to get everything wrong.  It's just a transaction. Same as any other. Hell, why couldn't you just throw dollar bills at god...if that's a meaningful comparison?

Whats the interest rate on a little bit of sin, these days?

OFC, that leaves out a minor detail. If god's looking to pay your mortgage..he's looking to pay it in blood, isn't he. Would you -really- take blood money to pay off your mortgage? Is your depravity even worse than what -I- expect?

[Harry Nevis]

The sin of letting Jesus take the fall for you is IMO much worse than anything you could accomplish as a mere mortal. 

Your Opinion is noted, but it doesn't count for anything.

I pay my own debts.

If some rich person offered to pay off my mortgage for free, I'd take it. I guess I have less pride than you.

Or you can't see that a mortgage is a real, palpable thing, paying it off could be independently verified, and rich people exist. Other than that....

[Astreja]

If some rich person offered to pay off my mortgage for free, I'd take it. I guess I have less pride than you.

Or you can't see that a mortgage is a real, palpable thing, paying it off could be independently verified, and rich people exist.  Other than that....

Mortgages *can* be paid off.  (waves certificate of title in alpha male's face)  You're daft if you think you can appease a hell-creating god by playing along with a game that *it* created.  For all you know, accepting the Jesus sacrifice could be a trap to see if you have the moral cojones to reject it.

[The Grand Nudger]

He doesn't.  He's super worried that god knows about all his badthought.

It's difficult to imagine just -how much- of a petty joke a god would consider this type of follower. Hoping against hope that someone else pays his debts. Is this what heaven is full of? Mortgage defaulters? How could a god stand the stench?

[Rhondazvous]

Question 1
If he had simply stopped reproduction then only those responsible will have suffered,

The christian god has a very odd definition of responsile to which I am not privy.

Adam, who in my view is the responsible party, was returned to dust. None of the punishments listed in Genesis have the slightest thing to do with spiritual punishment or the passing down of spiritual death to his offspring.

In the 4,000 years between Adam and Paul not one biblical writer had a word to say about original sin. Every man was responsible for his own sin up until the advent of apocalyptic Judaism when the Jews needed a theology that allowed punishment after death.

When the compilers of the bible in the fourth century decided to include pre and post exile theology in one text, the result was the kind of contradiction and confusion that we find today. Asking probing questions only highlights this.

[Crossless2.0]

I've said it many times: the Christian god is petty and ridiculous beyond measure. No matter how believers try to dress it up, it's impossible for me to associate their idea of the divine with anything that I would consider 'majestic'. There's entirely too much diaper sniffing going on in the NT for me to take it seriously.

[John V]

Mortgages *can* be paid off.  (waves certificate of title in alpha male's face) 

Sins were paid off on the cross.

You're daft if you think you can appease a hell-creating god by playing along with a game that *it* created. 

If a God creates a game, the created would logically do well to play it.

For all you know, accepting the Jesus sacrifice could be a trap to see if you have the moral cojones to reject it.

You haven't shown that accepting it is immoral. Jesus laid down his life four ours - why was it immoral for him to do so?

[The Grand Nudger]

Oh...you misunderstand, it's not necessarily immoral for -him- to make the attempt, even doomed to failure as it always would have been..it's immoral for -you- to accept. Your imaginary friends moral agency isn't under scrutiny here..yours is. Glad to clear that up.

That the better man might lay his life down for your mortgage evading ass isn't exactly all that surprising. That you would would accept the death of the better man and think that this was good, otoh...is. That's the kind of idea that can only come from a person you can never turn your back on. The kind of person that would feed you to the wolves to save his own skin. The kind of person decidedly -unlike- the sacrifice in question.

[SteveII]

Oh...you misunderstand, it's not necessarily immoral for -him- to make the attempt, even doomed to failure as it always would have been..it's immoral for -you- to accept.  Your imaginary friends moral agency isn't under scrutiny here..yours is.  Glad to clear that up.

That the better man might lay his life down for your mortgage evading ass isn't exactly all that surprising.  That you would would accept the death of the better man and think that this was good, otoh...is.  That's the kind of idea that can only come from a person you can never turn your back on.  The kind of person that would feed you to the wolves to save his own skin.  The kind of person decidedly -unlike- the sacrifice in question.

You are making a category error (among other errors). Jesus was not a man so a comparison is silly. God himself came down to bridge the gap between his holiness and our sin. He is the only one that could have done that. We cannot even pay with our lives to make that happen (a debt is an incomplete metaphor). Accepting his offer in no way infers a lack of character, because paying your own way was never an option.

[Cyberman]

Or you can't see that a mortgage is a real, palpable thing, paying it off could be independently verified, and rich people exist.  Other than that....

Mortgages *can* be paid off.  (waves certificate of title in alpha male's face)  You're daft if you think you can appease a hell-creating god by playing along with a game that *it* created.  For all you know, accepting the Jesus sacrifice could be a trap to see if you have the moral cojones to reject it.

Added to which, this mortgage is something that a paid liar is telling you that you owe; that this imaginary rich man wants to pay it for you; and that all he wants in return is for you to surrender all of your critical thinking, personal responsibility and morality. You are perfectly free to cancel at any time without obligation, but an equally imaginary part of you will burn forever if you do. Oh, and it's your fault.