For Rich Fetuses Only, Though

[The Grand Nudger]

Poverty isn't exactly a happy go lucky subject brewer...and it certainly isn't reduced or explained in any meaningful way by commenting on people who choose to stay poor. That's not a thing.  It's denigrating flippancy.

I help support people who choose to stay poor, personally. They are out there. I wish they didn't make that choice, but they do. 

No, you don't.  You choose to conceptualize their poverty in that manner, that's the only person making a choice here.  I wish you didn't make -that- choice..because then, you and I might be able to come up with ways to end the cycle of poverty that's existed for all of human history....but as long as you're writing it off as poor people making the choice to remain poor......snowballs chance in hell.

-and you're one of the -decent- conservatives.  I mean that, it's just that it doesn't seem to be worth much in context.  

If you don't know that they exist you need to get out more.

O-Kay......

[Amarok]

40+  years of dealing with the poor and growing up poor. And i have yet to meet one of these people .

[The Grand Nudger]

I think...and this is just a theory, that some people have a lazy cousin..and they imagine that this lazy cousin is representative of poor people and poverty.  I have a little brother who sits on the couch, lazy as shit.  The irony being that he comes from a good family that has money (at least when the real estate market isn't depressed, lol)...and this is the very -reason- that he can "choose to be poor".  Because he isn't.  

Poor people, actual poor people...can't afford choices.

[Aegon]

[Ravenshire]

Nah. They're all choosing to stay poor Aegon. Just ask Class Clown Court Jester.

[Aegon]

Nah. They're all choosing to stay poor Aegon. Just ask Class Clown Court Jester.

How he ends that post churns my stomach. It doesn't upset me, it's sort of just... saddening. Growing up isn't easy and requires a "a bit of effort"... wew. All these people were just missing some condescending business owner there to say "Put in a bit of effort, would ya?" 

 

I have to remind myself after conversations like these how lucky I am. Especially with my medical history. Yikes.

EDIT: Remembered a quote from my research that fits CJ's perspective very nicely; from the Topeka Advocate, 1886: "The horror of 'paternalism' hangs like a black pall over the buried hopes of the helpless poor."

[LadyForCamus]

I think...and this is just a theory, that some people have a lazy cousin..and they imagine that this lazy cousin is representative of poor people and poverty.  I have a little brother who sits on the couch, lazy as shit.  The irony being that he comes from a good family that has money (at least when the real estate market isn't depressed, lol)...and this is the very -reason- that he can "choose to be poor".  Because he isn't.  

Poor people, actual poor people...can't afford choices.

I think it's a mistake to broadbrush anyone like this, Khem.  My husband's father and stepmother CHOOSE to be poor in the sense that their bad choices keep them poor.  Choosing to spend their meager paycheck on alcohol and cigarettes instead of groceries, the electric, or fixing their car; choosing to only take jobs from employers who are willing to hire them both as a package deal; choosing to take off of work constantly to watch your kid "play" college baseball when he's only sitting the bench...they wake up every day and make terrible, irresponsible decisions that lead them to exactly where they are now, and have always been, and always will be.  I'm not saying that $200,000/yr job is right around the corner for them if only, but they could at least be financially comfortable (not getting the lights shut off, not having to borrow food stamps from your brother in order to eat) if they put an ounce of forethought into their decisions.  Please understand, I don't believe these two individuals are in any way representative of the poverty-stricken as a group; I think you've known me longer enough to know that.  I'm just saying you can't deny there are going to be a few certified morons in any population of people.  They ARE out there, lol.

[brewer]

I help support people who choose to stay poor, personally. They are out there. I wish they didn't make that choice, but they do. 

No, you don't.  You choose to conceptualize their poverty in that manner, that's the only person making a choice here.  I wish you didn't make -that- choice..because then, you and I might be able to come up with ways to end the cycle of poverty that's existed for all of human history....but as long as you're writing it off as poor people making the choice to remain poor......snowballs chance in hell.

-and you're one of the -decent- conservatives.  I mean that, it's just that it doesn't seem to be worth much in context.  

If you don't know that they exist you need to get out more.

O-Kay......

Yes I do. You choose to keep your head in the sand.

[The Grand Nudger]

@Camus
I've already said that a few certified morons doesn't meaningfully represent poverty, an issue on which we agree.  Nevertheless, the notion that it does persists and it sickens me, and your comments give cover to that notion even though you don't believe it anymore than I do....meanwhile, we've got two people here who think it does...and the country is full of people who agree. As to your relations, plenty of ink has been spilled attempting to explain self destructive and short sighted decisions, particularly in the poor, "choosing to be poor" doesn't meaningfully comment on that...either.

@brewer
If you say so.

[LadyForCamus]

@Camus
I've already said that a few certified morons doesn't meaningfully represent poverty, an issue on which we agree.  Nevertheless, the notion that it does persists and it sickens me, and your comments give cover to that notion even though you don't believe it anymore than I do....meanwhile, we've got two people here who think it does...and the country is full of people who agree.  As to your relations, plenty of ink has been spilled attempting to explain self destructive and short sighted decisions, particularly in the poor, "choosing to be poor" doesn't meaningfully comment on that...either.  

@brewer
If you say so.

I'm not giving cover to anything, Khem.  That there are a couple of morons here who would happily take one stranger's personal anecdote as evidence to support their disgusting position is not in my control.  I also understand that not being food-insecure anymore, and attaining a reliable vehicle (two things these individuals could easily achieve with a little foresight) does not equal, 'not poor anymore.'  In that broader sense, they are as stuck as the rest of them.  My husband climbed his way out of that demographic tooth and nail and suffered greatly in the process, but no one should have to suffer that much to get their head above water.  

I guess I was thinking we could have a discussion about personal responsibility without victim blaming, but I'll concede that a talk about self-destructive behavior, poor or otherwise, warrents its own thread. I wouldn't want to make any harder for our resident clowns than it already is.