Liberals versus Leftists

[FatAndFaithless]

I don't feel bad about appreciating the fact that I live in a society that has far more opportunity, freedom, and economic strength than a lot of other places that allows me to live a comfortable life. There are things about America that are just flatly better than other nations (freedom of speech in the US vs freedom of speech in Turkey or Pakistan, for example), and there are things about America that really, really need improvement to catch up to other countries (abortion rights in a lot of places, election finance reform stuff, etc). I don't feel bad about expressing my opinion about the good or bad things about America.

The point that it becomes shitty, for me, is when someone thinks that the way America does something is best simply because that's the way we do things, or that a system or policy in another country is inferior simply because it's foreign. Similarly with people, the notion that Americans are somehow better than other nationalities (ignorant of the fact that Americans by definition are made up of all sorts of nationalities) is also dangerous and harmful.

I really don't think it's hard to find a balance between holding up America as a piece of perfection in all things vs minimizing the achievements of our country so much that we aren't allowed to criticize other nations. I also think the vast majority of people are already maintaining this balance - it's just a minority of folks on the left and right that make the loudest ruckus and get the most attention.

Also have no idea what label someone might use to describe my views, but I've made it pretty clear on this forum that the label I get saddled with really doesn't matter to me.

[downbeatplumb]

The feeling of counting my blessings and being grateful and being proud of my husband for what he does??  

Yep, sounds awful...

Where did I say that you shouldn't be grateful and proud of what your husband does?
Fighting in the military is a fine tradition and I work for the british military myself.

BUT it is not good because your country is the best.

Have you tried other countries by the way?

If not, by what do you judge the US?

[Tiberius]

I have a problem with people claiming America is the "best country" for a different reason: it distracts from the actual problems that America has. If enough people go around saying that it's the best country, more people will be resistant to change. If we're already the best country, why do we need to make changes or improve things?

That's my fear anyway. Some Americans think we have the best justice system, but we don't. Not do we have the best democratic system, health system, etc.

When people say America is the "best" country I have no idea what they are using to make that claim.

I still love America, because it is a great country. I don't need it to be the best country for me to want to live here, but if we can admit that we aren't the best, then maybe being the best can be our goal, something to work towards, rather than some fake title that makes people feel good.

[The Grand Nudger]

I would say that patriotism is also bad. That's how I feel. I don't think that one country should be considered better, look at the trouble this sort of feeling causes.

One of the things that makes america great is that you're allowed to hold and express that opinion without getting sent to the gulag.  It's a greatness shared by many other countries...but not all of em.

[Catholic_Lady]

The feeling of counting my blessings and being grateful and being proud of my husband for what he does??  

Yep, sounds awful...

Where did I say that you shouldn't be grateful and proud of what your husband does?
Fighting in the military is a fine tradition and I work for the british military myself.

BUT it is not good because your country is the best.

Have you tried other countries by the way?

If not, by what do you judge the US?

You said patriotism is bad, and so is considering a country better than the others.

I'm an immigrant.

[Nay_Sayer]

Winner; No one

You've got the over sensitive on the left and the feces flinging gorillas of the right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2GwrR-4Q9E

[Amarok]

This Op is idiotically simplistic . And seriously preger university 

[Divinity]

Meanwhile, conservatives:

Conservatives: Black Lives don't matter
Conservative: Capitalism is the only good thing in the world, and there should be zero regulation because the rich and powerful are the only ones that matter
Conservative: Love of country is required
Conservative: America is the land of opportunity, and if you aren't rich you are just LAZY
Conservative: Free speech is great, unless you're saying Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas.  Or want to open a mosque.  Or you know the President is a fucking idiot.
Conservative: We have absolutely nothing to learn from other nations, because America was at it's best in the 1920's when women and blacks couldn't vote and corporations could dick people over all they like without pesky unions

[Aroura]

Is this going to be yet another thread created by but not participated in by the OP?
It's getting kinda old, I must say.

[Amarok]

Patriotism- Is loving a country but not becoming so enraptured in it that you start trying to force rituals on people on pain of ostracization . Or treating deviation or questioning of aspects of culture ,history , or symbolism as a personnel attack .

Example I don't stand for the anthem during Hockey games i don't think it has any business being there . Once a man said  i was disrespecting his son who died in Afghanistan. I told him it was nothing personnel and that i don't need forced rituals to remind me that his son died .I have meet enough of the mental casualties of Afghanistan to last 10 life times .   

Nationalism -on the other hand is a plague that throughout history has lead to the  most vicious examples of human barbarity and xenophobic  idiocy .