Paul Ryan Criticized over "Thoughts and Prayers" Comment

[Whateverist]

What's wrong with offering thoughts and prayers?

The people who died were all Christian, obviously. If it brings any sense of peace or comfort to their families to be offered prayers, then why would anyone have a problem with it?

Thoughts and prayers are fine, but are they enough?  Should our elected officials try harder to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill, or are thoughts and prayers all we're paying them for?

[Minimalist]

The gun merchants provide cash.

Money talks.  Bullshit walks.

[Rev. Rye]

I suppose we can't absolutely prove that it's not divine intervention that is lowering the numbers as time goes by, so maybe prayer does work. It's about as likely as God existing in the first place, but can't entirely be ruled out I suppose.

The odds for divine intervention would have to be lower than the odds of the existence of a God, by definition.

Divine intervention would require the existence of God, but also multiple other conditions that would necessarily make the odds a lot less likely, most importantly that said God is an interventionist (as opposed to the deistic model) and that said God wouldn't just decide to make it worse, whether out of some sort of "for your own good" mentality or out of sheer spite, which some Christians have been known to attribute to God.

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What's wrong with offering thoughts and prayers?

The people who died were all Christian, obviously. If it brings any sense of peace or comfort to their families to be offered prayers, then why would anyone have a problem with it?

That's the thing about "thoughts and prayers;" it's basically a line people who should be doing something about it (especially politicians) say so to distract other people from noticing they're not doing anything. Right-wingers complain about liberals who "virtue signal" displaying conspicuous displays of morality (I call it Veblen morality) but this is conservatives doing the same goddam thing, and it's no less insufferable.

[GUBU]

Again, even if prayer doesn't "work", why take issue with it if it's bringing a sense of comfort to someone who just lost their family member? Let these people have their comfort. They just lost someone they love in a horrible way.

Again:

Prayer: The solution for the person who wants to be seen to be helping but is to lazy to get off their arse and do something

If you actually want to do something, instead of faffing around on your knees, why not, at least call over with a pot roast, make a donation to their ongoing healthcare aor write to your public reprasentative demanding a sensible gun control policy?

[Catholic_Lady]

Well, since apparently it needs to be said for the 3rd time:

Praying and doing nothing else when there are things you can do isn't enough. Prayer should always be accompanied by taking action when possible. That's why we have the Corporal Works of Mercy: feed the hungry, clothe the naked, etc. Prayer is meant to be a supplement to whatever action is possible, not a substitute for it.

So, unless someone is only praying and not helping when they have the opportunity to, I don't see why anyone would take issue with it. Especially when it brings a sense of comfort and peace to people who, oh, I don't know, just lost their daughter to a violent attack? Maybe we shouldn't use this as an opportunity to criticise prayer just for the heck of it when there are people out there who lost the ones they love most and feel comforted by prayers.

[Brian37]

Well, since apparently it needs to be said for the 3rd time:

Praying and doing nothing else when there are things you can do isn't enough. Prayer should always be accompanied by taking action when possible. That's why we have the Corporal Works of Mercy: feed the hungry, clothe the naked, etc. Prayer is meant to be a supplement to whatever action is possible, not a substitute for it.

So, unless someone is only praying and not helping when they have the opportunity to, I don't see why anyone would take issue with it. Especially when it brings a sense of comfort and peace to people who, oh, I don't know, just lost their daughter to a violent attack? Maybe we shouldn't use this as an opportunity to criticise prayer just for the heck of it when there are people out there who lost the ones they love most and feel comforted by prayers.

CL, I am going to put this politely as possible.

Jews pray as well.
Muslims pray as well.
Hindus pray as well.
Buddhists pray as well. Not to a god, ok, but to their ancestors and spirits. 

Most of the world prays. Yet the planet averages 50 to 60 million deaths WORLDWIDE on average per year, year after year decade after decade. Humans have been praying FOREVER.

Our species was around long before any written religion. Life was around long before humans. Our planet is 4 billion years old, and has suffered in that time 5 mass extinction events. I don't see a God, or gods or spirits being up there, or anywhere. I see humans fearing death. I see humans fearing being finite. I see humans reflecting their social norms locally, mostly handed down to them by their parents. 

Actions work. Pray at best only offers comfort, but it will never replace action.

[Joods]

What's wrong with offering thoughts and prayers?

The people who died were all Christian, obviously. If it brings any sense of peace or comfort to their families to be offered prayers, then why would anyone have a problem with it?

What's wrong with it? 

Nothing until it starts being used as a replacement to actually get something done. And when the gun issue in this country needs to be addressed, this is what always happens.

Because offering up thoughts and prayers does nothing to solve the actual problem. Instead, it pacifies people and gives a free pass to those praying so that they don't actually have to do anything. Ignoring the gun issues in this country won't make anyone here any safer and people need to start admitting that we have a serious problem here and instead of praying - we need to work on ways to either enforce the laws we already have or find another way to stop these senseless killings. 

If you keep on doing what you've always done, you'll keep on getting what you've always got. These mass shootings will continue as long as morons like Ryan hold the belief that prayer works.

[GUBU]

Well, since apparently it needs to be said for the 3rd time:

Praying and doing nothing else when there are things you can do isn't enough. Prayer should always be accompanied by taking action when possible. That's why we have the Corporal Works of Mercy: feed the hungry, clothe the naked, etc. Prayer is meant to be a supplement to whatever action is possible, not a substitute for it.

So, unless someone is only praying and not helping when they have the opportunity to, I don't see why anyone would take issue with it. Especially when it brings a sense of comfort and peace to people who, oh, I don't know, just lost their daughter to a violent attack? Maybe we shouldn't use this as an opportunity to criticise prayer just for the heck of it when there are people out there who lost the ones they love most and feel comforted by prayers.

Ok I'll put in simple terms for the hard of thinking, prayer is all too often used in substitution for doing something constructive. When somebody in public says "my thoughts and prayers are with the victims of X" you know they haven't a single fuck to give to the victims and will not lift a finger to help them.

[Brian37]

Well, since apparently it needs to be said for the 3rd time:

Praying and doing nothing else when there are things you can do isn't enough. Prayer should always be accompanied by taking action when possible. That's why we have the Corporal Works of Mercy: feed the hungry, clothe the naked, etc. Prayer is meant to be a supplement to whatever action is possible, not a substitute for it.

So, unless someone is only praying and not helping when they have the opportunity to, I don't see why anyone would take issue with it. Especially when it brings a sense of comfort and peace to people who, oh, I don't know, just lost their daughter to a violent attack? Maybe we shouldn't use this as an opportunity to criticise prayer just for the heck of it when there are people out there who lost the ones they love most and feel comforted by prayers.

Ok I'll put in simple terms for the hard of thinking, prayer is all too often used in substitution for doing something constructive. When somebody in public says "my thoughts and prayers are with the victims of X" you know they haven't a single fuck to give to the victims and will not lift a finger to help them.

To be fair to CL, not everyone has deep pockets nor can spend time advocating. My objection is to the logic of ALL theism, not just her.

If all someone has to offer is kind words, sometimes that is really all they have to offer. But, on a national political level, for those who DO have the money and means, there is no excuse. That cliche is far to political, and used by opportunists to keep power. But when she offers her condolences I believe she means it. I simply don't agree with the logic that prayer works. I am talking about the power level, and those in power who offer it up, to keep support. Action is more at the top, in those who have the power. Everyday laypeople cant do what the rich do to solve these problems. They cant do what politicians do at the same level. I do think grass roots helps, pushing at the bottom sure. But I am not going to say that everyone can end up being a Martin Luther King Jr, or a Malala or JFK. 

I am tired of "thoughts an prayers" as well. It is hollow and meaningless. All the world's religions pray for their respective heros and holy leaders to protect them. And it still remains the ride ends, even for their leaders, even for the rich. Actions do matter, but to me, the responsibility starts at the top.

[henryp]

The atheist equivalent of thoughts and prayers seems to be bitching about other people saying thoughts and prayers.