Al Franken is latest to be accused of sexual assault

[John V]

My assumption would be that Al Franken just thought it was funny.  And for most of human history, it would have been considered funny.  Plenty still find it funny, I assume.

Sticking your tongue in a woman's mouth against her will is funny?

And regarding the picture, try doing that with a woman who isn't asleep and see how funny it is...

[downbeatplumb]

My assumption would be that Al Franken just thought it was funny.  And for most of human history, it would have been considered funny.  Plenty still find it funny, I assume.

Sticking your tongue in a woman's mouth against her will is funny?

And regarding the picture, try doing that with a woman who isn't asleep and see how funny it is...

They were practicing a stage kiss. It wasn't like he went up to her in the street and stuck his tongue down her throat.
He misjudged it. He has apologised.

Trump on the other hand has confessed when he thought he was off mike but then denies when he knows he's on mike.

[johan]

If every man who ever copped a feel is a criminal then we all belong in jail.

It's different if there's consent...It can really suck if someone just suddenly gropes a girl out of no where(or I guess it could also happen to guys).

Its happened to me and I'm a guy. But I never felt violated or like a victim because of it. I always just chalked it up as an unwanted advance which I put a stop to, i.e. something that happens to everyone now and then.

Now if one of those women who gave me an unwanted dick squeeze and oral tongue inspection were become say, a US senator. And if I were working for some sort of major news media company and possibly looking to make a name for myself.... 

Ok now I admit I am fully aware that I'm leaving out a huge factor in all this. And that is that in every single case of women trying to force themselves on me, I never for a moment felt the least bit like I would not be able to stop the advance. IOW rape was never on the menu in my mind. I strongly suspect that for most women, that is almost always not the case. And that is a significant factor here. 

But still, the kiss in question in Franken's case was in the course of rehearsing or performing some sort of skit. I've not seen clarification either way but one would assume they were not alone at the time in such a situation. Pretty hard to be raped when you're in a room full of witnesses. 

Which brings me back to if one of those women who tried to lick my tonsils were to become a senator and I were working for a major news outlet....

[henryp]

My assumption would be that Al Franken just thought it was funny.  And for most of human history, it would have been considered funny.  Plenty still find it funny, I assume.

Sticking your tongue in a woman's mouth against her will is funny?

And regarding the picture, try doing that with a woman who isn't asleep and see how funny it is...

Trying to be disgusting as possible when kissing is a pretty normal SNL gag.  That goes doubly so when it's two guys kissing.  They even have a recurring bit based solely on the idea called "The Vogelchecks.  http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/v...3278?snl=1

As for grabbing someone when they are sleeping, that's inappropriate.  But the photo looks like it's more miming grabbing her breasts, and she's wearing a bulletproof vest, so it's not like there's really anything to be 'grabbed'.  To me it seems more on par with drawing dicks on someone's face while they are sleeping type activity.  Inappropriate, but the purpose isn't sexual assault, it's that we've got a bunch of sexual hangups as a society, so this sort of thing makes people giggle.  Or used to, anyways.

Retroactively enforcing new moral norms seems sketchy at best.

---

Sticking your tongue in a woman's mouth against her will is funny?

And regarding the picture, try doing that with a woman who isn't asleep and see how funny it is...

They were practicing a stage kiss. It wasn't like he went up to her in the street and stuck his tongue down her throat.
He misjudged it. He has apologised.

Trump on the other hand has confessed when he thought he was off mike but then denies when he knows he's on mike.

This is so disingenuous. He didn't confess anything.  It's pretty clear it was hyperbolic.  Trump was a billionaire socialite in NYC.  He was just talking about how women would make themselves very available sexually to him, and how surreal that was.  Most people just don't get it, because most people don't have large numbers of beautiful women trying to 'land them' because of money and prestige.  

Experiences with women for average people, compared to the Tiger Woods/Donald Trumps/Kobe Bryants/Mick Jaggers/etc...  It's just not the same thing.

[vorlon13]

I've read Franken's Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot, and Al Franken; Giant of the Senate. Enjoyed both immensely. Was sufficiently impressed with Giant/Senate to feel (along with Geraldo Rivera) the Franken has some presidential fortitude lurking beneath the comedic exterior.

But he's not uniquely qualified for a run in 2020.

Hell, the 'pubs fielded 16 or 17 serious contenders in 2016, I'm boggled why there aren't more Dem names being floated now. Hell, Hillary's name came up again yesterday for 2020. Sheesh, Obama and Trumply have both clobbered her, both have it well documented how they did it, Hillary has made it abundantly clear she learned nothing from her defeat in 2008 to Obama and I'll note 'past is prolog' to assert she learned nothing from 2016 either. Why is bandwidth even being wasted on her now that we are on the cusp of 2018?

Hell, let's rustle the bushes and see if we can't stir up some names, lotsa names, for 2020 !!

[Martian Mermaid]

It's different if there's consent...It can really suck if someone just suddenly gropes a girl out of no where(or I guess it could also happen to guys).

Its happened to me and I'm a guy. But I never felt violated or like a victim because of it. I always just chalked it up as an unwanted advance which I put a stop to, i.e. something that happens to everyone now and then.

Now if one of those women who gave me an unwanted dick squeeze and oral tongue inspection were become say, a US senator. And if I were working for some sort of major news media company and possibly looking to make a name for myself.... 

Ok now I admit I am fully aware that I'm leaving out a huge factor in all this. And that is that in every single case of women trying to force themselves on me, I never for a moment felt the least bit like I would not be able to stop the advance. IOW rape was never on the menu in my mind. I strongly suspect that for most women, that is almost always not the case. And that is a significant factor here. 

But still, the kiss in question in Franken's case was in the course of rehearsing or performing some sort of skit. I've not seen clarification either way but one would assume they were not alone at the time in such a situation. Pretty hard to be raped when you're in a room full of witnesses. 

Which brings me back to if one of those women who tried to lick my tonsils were to become a senator and I were working for a major news outlet....

Wasn't there more than a kiss? A kiss is not so bad, but more than that can be pretty creepy, witnesses around or not, if you feel like you can't stop them. It can still be pretty upsetting.

[downbeatplumb]

[quote pid='1658936' dateline='1511004529']

---

They were practicing a stage kiss. It wasn't like he went up to her in the street and stuck his tongue down her throat.
He misjudged it. He has apologised.

Trump on the other hand has confessed when he thought he was off mike but then denies when he knows he's on mike.

This is so disingenuous. He didn't confess anything.  It's pretty clear it was hyperbolic.  Trump was a billionaire socialite in NYC.  He was just talking about how women would make themselves very available sexually to him, and how surreal that was.  Most people just don't get it, because most people don't have large numbers of beautiful women trying to 'land them' because of money and prestige.  

Experiences with women for average people, compared to the Tiger Woods/Donald Trumps/Kobe Bryants/Mick Jaggers/etc...  It's just not the same thing.
[/quote]

Hmm he said that he went into the changing rooms of teenage beauty contestants which was specifically a complaint against him.
He also said that he would grab "women by the pussy" and he has been accused of inappropriate touching.

He said he did the things he's been accused of then says he didn't mean it.

[henryp]

[quote pid='1658936' dateline='1511004529']

---

They were practicing a stage kiss. It wasn't like he went up to her in the street and stuck his tongue down her throat.
He misjudged it. He has apologised.

Trump on the other hand has confessed when he thought he was off mike but then denies when he knows he's on mike.

This is so disingenuous. He didn't confess anything.  It's pretty clear it was hyperbolic.  Trump was a billionaire socialite in NYC.  He was just talking about how women would make themselves very available sexually to him, and how surreal that was.  Most people just don't get it, because most people don't have large numbers of beautiful women trying to 'land them' because of money and prestige.  

Experiences with women for average people, compared to the Tiger Woods/Donald Trumps/Kobe Bryants/Mick Jaggers/etc...  It's just not the same thing.

Hmm he said that he went into the changing rooms of teenage beauty contestants which was specifically a complaint against him.
He also said that he would grab "women by the pussy" and he has been accused of inappropriate touching.

He said he did the things he's been accused of then says he didn't mean it.
[/quote]

I am not aware of any accusations he just grabbed a woman by the vagina.  Accusations of inappropriate touching and just grabbing women by the vagina willy-nilly are two different things.  This is one of the reasons Trump won.  You have a clearly shitty person in Trump based on reality.  But instead of just focusing on that, so many of the arguments against him were hyperbolic accusations.  (i take it back, I see there was an accusation of vagina grabbing)

Just like the teen beauty contest thing.  He said he walked into the adult pageant changing rooms.  Still shady as fuck, but you're saying he said he went into teen pageants, which isn't true.  And now instead of us agreeing he's a sketchy perv, we're talking about you being misleading.

[downbeatplumb]

This is so disingenuous. He didn't confess anything.  It's pretty clear it was hyperbolic.  Trump was a billionaire socialite in NYC.  He was just talking about how women would make themselves very available sexually to him, and how surreal that was.  Most people just don't get it, because most people don't have large numbers of beautiful women trying to 'land them' because of money and prestige.  

Experiences with women for average people, compared to the Tiger Woods/Donald Trumps/Kobe Bryants/Mick Jaggers/etc...  It's just not the same thing.

Hmm he said that he went into the changing rooms of teenage beauty contestants which was specifically a complaint against him.
He also said that he would grab "women by the pussy" and he has been accused of inappropriate touching.

He said he did the things he's been accused of then says he didn't mean it.

I am not aware of any accusations he just grabbed a woman by the vagina.  Accusations of inappropriate touching and just grabbing women by the vagina willy-nilly are two different things.  This is one of the reasons Trump won.  You have a clearly shitty person in Trump based on reality.  But instead of just focusing on that, so many of the arguments against him were hyperbolic accusations.  (i take it back, I see there was an accusation of vagina grabbing)

Just like the teen beauty contest thing.  He said he walked into the adult pageant changing rooms.  Still shady as fuck, but you're saying he said he went into teen pageants, which isn't true.  And now instead of us agreeing he's a sketchy perv, we're talking about you being misleading.
[/quote]

WASHINGTON — As women have come forward to say that Donald J. Trump groped them without their consent in places like New York and Florida, the claims have raised interest in the legal rules about such contact

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/19/us/po...w-say.html

Four women who competed in the 1997 Miss Teen USA beauty pageant said Donald Trump walked into the dressing room while contestants — some as young as 15 — were changing.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/kendalltaggart/....qfXw1ZN8J

You were saying?

The trouble is Trump really is that bad, but for some reason people defend him saying its hyperbole when actually he just is the worst.

By the way I'm not American so its a bit like watching a friend make a poor girlfriend choice.

[johan]

Its happened to me and I'm a guy. But I never felt violated or like a victim because of it. I always just chalked it up as an unwanted advance which I put a stop to, i.e. something that happens to everyone now and then.

Now if one of those women who gave me an unwanted dick squeeze and oral tongue inspection were become say, a US senator. And if I were working for some sort of major news media company and possibly looking to make a name for myself.... 

Ok now I admit I am fully aware that I'm leaving out a huge factor in all this. And that is that in every single case of women trying to force themselves on me, I never for a moment felt the least bit like I would not be able to stop the advance. IOW rape was never on the menu in my mind. I strongly suspect that for most women, that is almost always not the case. And that is a significant factor here. 

But still, the kiss in question in Franken's case was in the course of rehearsing or performing some sort of skit. I've not seen clarification either way but one would assume they were not alone at the time in such a situation. Pretty hard to be raped when you're in a room full of witnesses. 

Which brings me back to if one of those women who tried to lick my tonsils were to become a senator and I were working for a major news outlet....

Wasn't there more than a kiss? A kiss is not so bad, but more than that can be pretty creepy, witnesses around or not, if you feel like you can't stop them. It can still be pretty upsetting.

I've definitely not seen and read everything there is the see and read on this. But everything that I have seen and read on it so far described one very inappropriate kiss, presumably in a public setting with witnesses and the picture in which his hands were very much 'in her personal space' but also very much not actually touching her. I'm aware of no other accusations beyond that.

Sexual assault victim need to be believed. No question about that. She claims that to this day, her fists clench up at the sight of him or the mention of his name or whatever. From one inappropriate kiss. She claims that so I believe her. But I also believe that tells me one of two things. Either that was one hell of a kiss the likes of which I've never known, or there's more to the story behind the clinched fists. And if there is more to the story, that's her business so if she doesn't want to reveal it, she doesn't have to. Her choice. But she's also going to have to live with the fact that short of other information, the choice to include the tidbit about the clenched fists over one kiss in her story is bound to make some suspicious of her credibility.