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Just because She's Topless
#31
RE: Just because She's Topless
Well thanks for replying.  I learned a lot in what you said, and in what you didn't answer.

For anyone who finds this type of view compelling, I think you need to ask these questions for yourself.  Where is the harm?   If you are saying that it is an emotional / psychological harm, then would would someones subjective offense justify and equal return of force as the OP?   Is physical harm justified, because I am offended by your ideas?   In which direction is the thinking running in this.   Is it moving from the basis, and the general up (moving forward).  Or is it starting off with X is wrong, and then moving backward to connect it?
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man.  - Alexander Vilenkin
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire.  - Martin Luther
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#32
RE: Just because She's Topless
(January 3, 2018 at 11:22 am)Khemikal Wrote:
(January 3, 2018 at 11:05 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote: I can't remember who I was talking with about harm and morality.  But for any who hold this view, then would the girl be in the wrong, since the objective harm was done against the man?

Both parties are objectively harmed, as is society in general.  She was groped, he was punched, and we have to live in a society where gropers need to be punched because some don't consider groping objectively harmful.

I remember every single time I was groped more clearly than every time I've been hit. I found it more disturbing to be groped for some reason.
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#33
RE: Just because She's Topless
A fight is an event, sexual assault is a violation.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#34
RE: Just because She's Topless
(January 3, 2018 at 11:56 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote:
(January 3, 2018 at 11:47 am)Khemikal Wrote: ........................?  I didn't ask you if you thought it was wrong. 

I asked you whether or not you might be able to identify some harm done if I waltzed up behind you and grabbed your dick.  I've asked you whether or not sexual assault is objectively harmful.

The harm is subjective, it's really going to depend on the person, and how they feel (subjective).  The act in question is physically harming.
If the person feels harmed because you touched their shoulder, would you justify a similar reaction?

And no... if someone runs up and touches my dick, I'm not gong to assault them.  I don't really feel harmed, and there is no objective harm done.  Is there an objective difference if he had accidentally touched the boob vs purposely?


Oh give it a break.  What the hell difference does it make whether a person thinks the harm is objective because some sky fairy had it written in a book under the "don'ts" heading?  Smug xtians like you make a much bigger deal about the righteousness you feel entitled to by standing behind your big invisible friend, than you ever do about people's actual behavior.  You may be morally retarded.
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#35
RE: Just because She's Topless
To be fair, getting decked for no reason is a violation too. Getting decked because you violated someone else is a fight, I guess. It's all very uncomplicated if you're not a cunt.
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#36
RE: Just because She's Topless
(January 3, 2018 at 12:59 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: Well thanks for replying.  I learned a lot in what you said, and in what you didn't answer.

For anyone who finds this type of view compelling, I think you need to ask these questions for yourself.  Where is the harm?  
-in sexual assault.  Just Asking Questions™.  

Jerkoff

Quote:If you are saying that it is an emotional / psychological harm, then would would someones subjective offense justify and equal return of force as the OP?
Subjective experience of harm is not a comment on the objective nature of harm as an act or event.   We all understand that people are subjectively experiencing harm regardless of whether or not that harm is, itself, subjective or objective.  Whether it is harm only in opinion, or in reality.  Is it just an opinion that sex crime is harmful, or is it...in reality, harmful? If you changed your opinion of sex crime (or I changed mine)..would anything about the effects of sex crime change?

You're welcome.

Quote:  Is physical harm justified, because I am offended by your ideas?  
Oh, is that what sex crime is, when someone offends someone else with their "ideas"? That fine young person offended that punchy bitch with an idea?

I can't help but shake the suspicion that I can find some way for idea to rhyme with penis.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#37
RE: Just because She's Topless
RoadRunner, honest question. Do you think molesting someone is harmless?
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#38
RE: Just because She's Topless
(January 3, 2018 at 11:32 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote:
(January 3, 2018 at 11:22 am)Khemikal Wrote: Both parties are objectively harmed, as is society in general.  She was groped, he was punched, and we have to live in a society where gropers need to be punched because some don't consider groping objectively harmful.

Now I remember... thanks!
What objective harm was done in groping?  It seems like this would be at best subjective.... some may not mind as much, and it may even be relative to the person who is doing the groping. An external observer, cannot really tell what harm was done.   What makes groping the boob wrong (from a harm standpoint), but tapping her on the shoulder not harmful?  I don't think that the guy intended harm or was thinking about harming the girl.  And yet she intentionally caused him harm.

Maybe if some random guy decided to pull your bollocks (presuming you're not into that, mind) your view may change?

Come on man, really? Bracketing out the conversation about her having her fun bags out in public, you honestly can't see anything 'objectively wrong with just walking up to a girl and having a grab of her titties?
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#39
RE: Just because She's Topless
Well, you know...it's all based on opinions, you see. Some girls like it/are asking for it/don't mind so much.

Maybe she was asking for it with her tits out and he was an innocent minded sex offender. The objective harm was done to the man, he's the victim of this sexual assault altercation, so sayeth RR.

I'd have giggled if she stabbed him. Probably have to go on probation but it would be worth.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#40
RE: Just because She's Topless
(January 3, 2018 at 1:14 pm)Whateverist Wrote:



Oh give it a break.  What the hell difference does it make whether a person thinks the harm is objective because some sky fairy had it written in a book under the "don'ts" heading?  Smug xtians like you make a much bigger deal about the righteousness you feel entitled to by standing behind your big invisible friend, than you ever do about people's actual behavior.  You may be morally retarded.

So...so much wrong here... You clearly do not understand my position or the moral argument. The question is, do you care , or do you just want to cause harm your interlocutors character to divert from a poor worldview and lack of thinking. I'm not being smug, and I don't feel any entitlement. And the discussion doesn't have anything to do with whether a particular group or person is more moral than another.

Frankly given the above, it would seem that your assessment is either one of ignorance, or childish name calling in the place of intelligent discussion.

(January 3, 2018 at 1:20 pm)Khemikal Wrote:
(January 3, 2018 at 12:59 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: Well thanks for replying.  I learned a lot in what you said, and in what you didn't answer.

For anyone who finds this type of view compelling, I think you need to ask these questions for yourself.  Where is the harm?  
-in sexual assault.  Just Asking Questions™.  

Doing quite well at avoiding them and trying to shift the burden on me as well.

Quote:
Quote:If you are saying that it is an emotional / psychological harm, then would would someones subjective offense justify and equal return of force as the OP?
Subjective experience of harm is not a comment on the objective nature of harm as an act or event.   We all understand that people are subjectively experiencing harm regardless of whether or not that harm is, itself, subjective or objective.  Whether it is harm only in opinion, or in reality.  Is it just an opinion that sex crime is harmful, or is it...in reality, harmful?  If you changed your opinion of sex crime (or I changed mine)..would anything about the effects of sex crime change?  

You're welcome.

How does this apply to the video in question?   I still waiting for you to point out where the objective harm is, as well as what you mean by objective (as it doesn't appear to match the normal definitions).

Quote:
Quote:  Is physical harm justified, because I am offended by your ideas?  
Oh, is that what sex crime is, when someone offends someone else with their "ideas"?  That fine young person offended that punchy bitch with an idea?

I wasn't making any such statement or really any statement at all.    I was asking a related question.  Do you think one can be violated or abused by what someone says?
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man.  - Alexander Vilenkin
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire.  - Martin Luther
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