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RE: Prayer
January 10, 2018 at 4:14 pm
(This post was last modified: January 10, 2018 at 4:18 pm by purplepurpose.)
(January 10, 2018 at 4:08 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: (January 10, 2018 at 3:54 pm)purplepurpose Wrote: @Huggy74 "Force powers were the manifestations of a Jedi, Sith, or other Force-adept's connection with the Force, an energy field that binds everything in existence. These powers were supernatural abilities not described by scientists. The powers were usually taught by Force-using organizations, but there were examples of individual, self-improving methods of learning to use the Force".
Except science acknowledges unequivocal that healing can be accomplished solely based on belief, so were not talking about anything remotely similar are we?
Why God let's babies suffer when He has endless power, meaning He can easily bring glory to himself and his followers by curing babies from horrible diseases? If babies don't get attention from God, who would?
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RE: Prayer
January 10, 2018 at 4:15 pm
Ugh, as usual Huggy is mangling science, pissing on it, and claiming it as somehow validating of his faith.
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
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RE: Prayer
January 10, 2018 at 4:31 pm
(January 10, 2018 at 4:14 pm)purplepurpose Wrote: (January 10, 2018 at 4:08 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: Except science acknowledges unequivocal that healing can be accomplished solely based on belief, so were not talking about anything remotely similar are we?
Why God let's babies suffer when He has endless power, meaning He can easily bring glory to himself and his followers by curing babies from horrible diseases? If babies don't get attention from God, who would?
Well, the usual answer tends to be something like "That baby touched and changed the hearts of all those who knew him/her, so even though their short life was tragic, it served a larger purpose. And now they're in heaven, so yay."
Of course, to an atheist, it comes across as "I decided to create a life, make it suffer for a time, and then snuff it out a short time later in order to teach other people a lesson." Because, without the flowery language, that's what the scenario is. Which makes me (and many others) wonder "What the fuck is wrong with you?" with regards to both this god and those that defend it.
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RE: Prayer
January 10, 2018 at 4:34 pm
(This post was last modified: January 10, 2018 at 4:35 pm by purplepurpose.)
(January 10, 2018 at 4:31 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: (January 10, 2018 at 4:14 pm)purplepurpose Wrote: Why God let's babies suffer when He has endless power, meaning He can easily bring glory to himself and his followers by curing babies from horrible diseases? If babies don't get attention from God, who would?
Well, the usual answer tends to be something like "That baby touched and changed the hearts of all those who knew him/her, so even though their short life was tragic, it served a larger purpose. And now they're in heaven, so yay."
Of course, to an atheist, it comes across as "I decided to create a life, make it suffer for a time, and then snuff it out a short time later in order to teach other people a lesson." Because, without the flowery language, that's what the scenario is. Which makes me (and many others) wonder "What the fuck is wrong with you?" with regards to both this god and those that defend it.
Atlas pointed it out well "Take it or leave it".
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RE: Prayer
January 10, 2018 at 4:41 pm
In God:The Failed Hypothesis, Victor Stenger references a study that showed that prayer actually seemed to have a negative effect, perhaps due to performance anxiety.
There was at least one study that showed that prayer helps, but the Doctor who did it was a known fraud and all the other doctors who were credited on the study said they weren't actually a part of it and never consented to have their name put on it.
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RE: Prayer
January 10, 2018 at 4:52 pm
(This post was last modified: January 10, 2018 at 4:55 pm by Huggy Bear.)
(January 10, 2018 at 4:13 pm)JackRussell Wrote: (January 10, 2018 at 4:08 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: Except science acknowledges unequivocal that healing can be accomplished solely based on belief, so were not talking about anything remotely similar are we?
Bullshit, science shows that remission of illness can occur and because we are somewhat complex a reason may not be evident.
The placebo effect and remission are not equal to magic; just that the cause is not known.
No magic required, and further investigation may have been able to elucidate the cause. We are normally just happy for a recovered person and then move onto somebody still in distress.
Lack of data does not equal correlation.
What did I say that was bs?
Science DOES acknowledge that belief can heal, which is exactly what the Bible states. The bible describes faith as the evidence of things not seen, so why don't you think of it as things that exist in another dimension that are affected by the vibrations and frequencies of the mind... if that makes you feel better.
The Healing Power of Belief
Published on April 19, 2011 by David R. Hamilton PhD
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RE: Prayer
January 10, 2018 at 5:26 pm
Well there are no other dimensions that we experience and the vibrations and frequencies of the mind are electro-chemical.
Positive thinking has nothing to do with supernatural belief and is reasonably well evidenced. I feel better when I dream of a more rational world too.
I don't care about things not seen, I care about things seen and evidenced. And I am happy with an unsolved mystery rather than leaping to "ChristianGodDidIt". That's the leap of faith, and faith is useless, I could believe anything on faith.
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RE: Prayer
January 10, 2018 at 5:43 pm
There's also the Study of the Therapeutic Effects of Intercessory Prayer (STEP), funded by the good 'ol Templeton Foundation.
Groups of patients for heart surgery were being prayed for in a very large study, the results were that no positive effect from the prayers could be observed. And before anyone comes dragging with the placebo bullshit, the group of people who knew they were receiving prayers actually did worse in the study!
"History is something that very few people have been doing while everyone else was ploughing fields and carrying water buckets." -Yuval Noah Harari
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RE: Prayer
January 10, 2018 at 5:54 pm
(January 10, 2018 at 5:43 pm)c152 Wrote: There's also the Study of the Therapeutic Effects of Intercessory Prayer (STEP), funded by the good 'ol Templeton Foundation.
Groups of patients for heart surgery were being prayed for in a very large study, the results were that no positive effect from the prayers could be observed. And before anyone comes dragging with the placebo bullshit, the group of people who knew they were receiving prayers actually did worse in the study!
Prayer does no good unless it's backed by belief.
A placebo does no good unless it's backed by belief.
What's the common denominator? So that study is nonsense unless it can determine the amount of faith a subject possesses, which is not something that is quantifiable by science.
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RE: Prayer
January 10, 2018 at 5:58 pm
We don't know how placebo works.
Ideation is an hypothesis.
Shit, theists like to demand a certainty that only they are capable of.
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