Rebellion against god

[The Valkyrie]

Firstly, you don't believe that God exists or that he rewards those who diligently seek him, or that the Bible is the means that God has chosen to educate believers and prepare them for eternal life.

Correct. I do not believe these claims.  Noone has ever given me a reason to.  

Until you yield to God, you will not have the capacity to see the evidence, even though the universe and everything in it was created by God.

How can I yield to something that I don’t believe exists? Why would you even say that to me if you know I’m not convinced that god exists in the first place? Why should I care what anyone has to say about a thing that I don’t even believe is real?  Would you care to hear me yammer on about the details of the invisible, fire-breathing dragon in my garage if I don’t provide you with any evidence or reason to believe it exists at all?

The reason people avaoid the knowledge of God is because they know that they will have to give up their idols. They cannot see reconciliation happening.

So, rather than ask me why I don’t believe, you’re just going to assume your own reasons (or whatever your cult tells you is the real reason) and project them onto me?  Talking to you is like talking to a robot.  Did they give you a script?

This is the way it works.

You have to believe to see the evidence and you have to have faith to believe.

If you have those, you don't need evidence.

It's an excuse for the lack of evidence.

The same way you'll only hear from "god" is if you believe and have faith. And if you don't hear it's because you don't belueve hard enough or have enough faith.

It's just empty claims and excuses.

[Banned]

If you fell into a well and someone let down a rope to help you out, you'd probably make a noose and hang yourself.

No it's more like a mob boss holding a rope down a well and demanding your servitude to get you out. After he kicked you down the well in the first place .Or a mob boss offering to help pull you from the ocean in exchange for your servitude . After he made the ocean and put you in it .And denied you ability to swim .Your god is no saviour he a condemner who offers  a cage for a price .  In that regard he's no better than a demon . And certainly not a perfectly good being.

Like I said, you make a noose.

[drfuzzy]

Dr. Fuzzy - you might want to fix your quote tags while there's still time to edit your post.

Eh darn it, too late.  Thanks tho', Joods.  I should have checked the preview better . . .       

[Banned]

It's not . And even if it were a truly good god would not care who hates him . He would reveal himself all the same because no one could hate him afterwards  . And a god who merely  makes the universe is not  a god worth worshipping . And nor does it mean he owns the universe nor would he wish too own it. 

Christians cannot reason or convince . Thus the weakness of their ideology is made clear . Those who have the ultimate truths would be able to convince to fly and water to burn . You cannot convince one soul here . It's not out of some grand example or a fault of others . It's because you have nothing worthwhile to say.

And your lack of ability to defend it says all we need to know. 

Then he is no god . A gods mere presence in reality should be a permanent as i have spoken before . If he exists their would be no need of permission or waiting . 

As i said the suns rays do not manipulate the cold does not manipulate . They are present and known. While your so called god is not.

Christians are not oblidged to convince people of anything. The Bible, which you neglect to study, has to stand on it's own, and it claims that the Spirit of God will teach the contrite in heart.

God already revealed himself in Jesus Christ. As much as the world would like to deny that. If you would like to reduce that to the efforts of the Catholic church you are welcome to do so, but it won't get you to the truth.

What you are wanting is a peek at God, while at the same time practicing sin.
You won't survive.
It's not that God is arbitarily wanting you to die. If that were the case you wouldn't have been born.
If you understood the nature of God and how the universe exists, you wouldn't be making weird demands for a revelation.

---

Your the one who brought up loss and gain . I simply answered . You god clearly has no interest in my friendship or love as either come from demands of yielding or submission or ownership . Those are the terms of an enemy not a friend . As for the reason it's assumed i was made it seems to again have nothing to do with friendship or love . But slavery .

Once again you make another noose. About slavery, aren't you already controlled by your habits? That's slavery already. And wanting to give up an idol is even nore difficult than breaking a habit. But if you ever want evidence of God on your side, ask him to give you the desire to break down the idols. But first try doing it by yourself, and see how you go.

[drfuzzy]

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It's not . And even if it were a truly good god would not care who hates him . He would reveal himself all the same because no one could hate him afterwards  . And a god who merely  makes the universe is not  a god worth worshipping . And nor does it mean he owns the universe nor would he wish too own it. 

Christians cannot reason or convince . Thus the weakness of their ideology is made clear . Those who have the ultimate truths would be able to convince to fly and water to burn . You cannot convince one soul here . It's not out of some grand example or a fault of others . It's because you have nothing worthwhile to say.

And your lack of ability to defend it says all we need to know. 

Then he is no god . A gods mere presence in reality should be a permanent as i have spoken before . If he exists their would be no need of permission or waiting . 

As i said the suns rays do not manipulate the cold does not manipulate . They are present and known. While your so called god is not.

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Christians are not oblidged to convince people of anything. The Bible, which you neglect to study, has to stand on it's own, and it claims that the Spirit of God will teach the contrite in heart.

God already revealed himself in Jesus Christ. As much as the world would like to deny that. If you would like to reduce that to the efforts of the Catholic church you are welcome to do so, but it won't get you to the truth.

What you are wanting is a peek at God, while at the same time practicing sin.
You won't survive.
It's not that God is arbitarily wanting you to die. If that were the case you wouldn't have been born.
If you understood the nature of God and how the universe exists, you wouldn't be making weird demands for a revelation.

Then stop trying to convince people who are quite convinced that you're delusional and way too attached to your imaginary war-demon sky fairy.
There is no god, and Jesus, IF he existed, was a suicidal loony egomaniac Jewish preacher.  He pissed off the religious leaders AND the Romans and he had to die.  IF he existed.
You can't be wanting a peek at something that doesn't exist . . . I'm not desperate to catch the Tooth Fairy.  Although if it actually showed up, now THAT would be interesting.

God doesn't want anything.  God doesn't have a nature.  God is a fantasy, just like Spiderman and Santa Claus.

[Banned]

Even you know that what you just wrote is total bullshit. Many people have "yielded to God" (Jesus) and yet they completely failed to be educated since there are many thousands of different Christianities that preach different things. Like some Christianities still cling to flat Earth while others concluded that biological evolution is true and yet I bet you're not one of them. Also your own division of Christianity believed Jesus will come on Earth on specific dates and failed - so much of yielding to Jesus to know the Bible.

The divisions and differences among men. That excuse won't stand up in God's court.

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Yeah "hundred other things are wrong" like worshiping Sunday. Majority of Christian denomination worship Sunday and claim if you don't go to Church on Sunday will make you burn in Hell while yours worships Saturday, so majority of Christians just fail to "yield to Christ".

It seems yielding to Christ is not very safe after all.

That's right it's not safe. Jesus said, fall on this rock and you'll be broken, but if you don't fall, this rock will crush you.

Funny, only the heart is broken. But it's a lot easier than calling for the mountains to fall on you, when he shows his face.

[drfuzzy]

Even you know that what you just wrote is total bullshit. Many people have "yielded to God" (Jesus) and yet they completely failed to be educated since there are many thousands of different Christianities that preach different things. Like some Christianities still cling to flat Earth while others concluded that biological evolution is true and yet I bet you're not one of them. Also your own division of Christianity believed Jesus will come on Earth on specific dates and failed - so much of yielding to Jesus to know the Bible.

The divisions and differences among men. That excuse won't stand up in God's court.

LOL, your imaginary friend has a court!!  Basketball?  Bloody Mary and Hitler and the Spanish Inquisition folks are his advisers, and they party all the time, let the bodies hit the floor!

[Astreja]

...Jesus, IF he existed, was a suicidal loony egomaniac Jewish preacher.  He pissed off the religious leaders AND the Romans and he had to die.  IF he existed.

This is what I believe as well.  The contemporaneous evidence for Jesus as a mortal man is weak.  There may have been such a preacher, but if he existed he had no particular significance or impact to the people in the area where he was supposed to have been roaming for three years.  There are neither Roman nor Jewish nor "interesting chap I encountered while in Jerusalem" foreign accounts circa 30-35 CE.  None at all.

The first mention of the Jesus character is a minimum of two generations later (circa 70 CE at the earliest), written in Greek by people who almost certainly were not eyewitnesses and who contradicted one another on various details.

Even if Jesus was a real person, I believe that he died and stayed dead.

[Banned]

[size=small].[size=small]If a true god reveal itself people would have no motivation need or want to rebel .

What do you think people would do if God revealed himself?

That's history - at Mt Sinai the Jews fled the scene.
So God become a human being, and they crucified him.

But of course you wouldn't be like that.

But if God became a human being like Jesus now is, and quoted the scriptures about his story, then that's a good reason to deny that he is God in human form.
because you don't want to study the scriptures.

But if God comes to you as God, then you would die before you had the chance to gasp.
So if he came to you as God, but in a protective mode for your sake - like a false image of God, an angel or an apparition, then you really cannot claim to have seen him, and he would be lying to you about who he really is.

So becoming a human being, not just appearing as one, would be the safest revelation for sinners, and if they don't like his character and personality then...?

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it has not been established at all that nature proves the existence of a deity.  Quite the opposite,
"Muppet show" you like that term.  You have used it before with the appropriate level of scorn.  But a "Muppet show" with a deity that actually showed UP and proved that it's not a fantasy would be orders of magnitude greater than the absurd snake-oil salesman lying witch doctor shows that happen in churches every weekend.  It would be proof!  That's obvious.

Accept what I say without any proof or burn.  Oh yes, that's love for you.

We reject it because nobody can prove that it has any value.

Oh isn't that convenient.  Connection to god is ONLY possible through unprovable, unmeasurable, unverifiable flights of fancy.  You keep making the same assertions over and over, even after being told that we reject them.  Your delusions aren't going to suddenly come true after the thousandth repetition.  The era of "believe my stories or burn" is over.Predestination. Yep. If your imaginary friend MADE the universe, and is actually omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent, (yes, I know the sky-daddy is a huge stretch and the fantasy capabilities attributed to it are . . . WAY beyond logical, but IF) then it knew, before the Big Bang, that it would create humans. And the humans would sin. And it would create hell. And it would drop 99% of every human ever born in the last 5 million years in hell for all eternity, and a few of it's sycophants would cheer over the screams of all of those poor souls who were being eternally tortured. Yep. What a lovely imaginary demon you worship. And yes, I have read many apologetic hoops that people who believe predestination is a thing go through trying to explain WHY it's not evil. They're truly sick.

Yammer yammer yammer, the same old "god will get you after you die", "you'll find out at the judgment", "why do you hate god?" "what sin are you clinging to that you won't listen to the voice of god?" idiocy, over and over and over and over and over and over and over --
PROVE YOUR SKY DADDY EXISTS. You can blubber all you want about your imaginary friend, but it's all completely moot until you can prove it exists. And that's only going to happen when you get it to show up and say "hi". In person. No telepathic delusions or warm fuzzy feelings.
Until it shows up, all of that "connection to God" sounds like "why won't you say the prayer so you can feel the love of the Celestial Pink Unicorn? Why won't you accept the Celestial Pink Unicorn into your heart and life?"

What an astounding bunch of bullshit.

 


Don't worry, God will turn up, That is what an Adventist hopes in.

Will you know who he is and be happy to see him, or will you be clinging to your hellish ideas about God, and be waiting with a set of test tubes and a band of clip board warriors?

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Totally opposite of what your god is all about. Non-believers are better examples of acceptance and respect. We let you in here, after all. Look at all the religious forums that immediately ban an atheist (or any other person) the moment said person doesn't agree with the religious and their ideals.  Can't say we do that here. We have many theists who have been a part of these forums for YEARS. 

Yes it does. The lack of proof and evidence is exactly why I reject it and the nonsense it contains. Lack of accuracy is why I reject it. The simple fact that the first two chapters of Genesis directly contradict each other are reason enough to reject it. The bible has NO veracity because you can't verify any of the information contained in it, via a measurable or proven method. 

Does the flood ring a bell? 
Genocide?
How about what he cursed Eve with after some fucking talking snake convinced her to eat an apple that she promptly gave to Adam. 
How come there are no talking snakes in the present day? 

Your bible and your god are made up. Nice try though.

Atheists are more honest than those on religious forums, and I agree that those forums have unfairly cut off many critics.

As for your take on the Bible, I can only say that I thought about those arguments while I was reading.

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Correct.  There is as of yet no actual proof to be had.  At this point all you have is your belief, which you are trying to leverage against reality to support that belief.  That's a circular argument, and logically invalid.

There is no actual rebellion, as one cannot "rebel" against a fictional being.
Obey the laws of your church if you wish.  I will not.  I have no patience or respect at all for cults that preach end-times theology.

The ability to see intelligent design has nothing to do with circular reasoning.
It is possible for humans to be ignorant of the true nature of the universe.

As for rebellion against nothing, the topic is "rebellion against god."
And for the end times theology, I really can't blame you for your distaste there, just look at YouTube.

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Correct. I do not believe these claims.  Noone has ever given me a reason to.  

How can I yield to something that I don’t believe exists? Why would you even say that to me if you know I’m not convinced that god exists in the first place? Why should I care what anyone has to say about a thing that I don’t even believe is real?  Would you care to hear me yammer on about the details of the invisible, fire-breathing dragon in my garage if I don’t provide you with any evidence or reason to believe it exists at all?

So, rather than ask me why I don’t believe, you’re just going to assume your own reasons (or whatever your cult tells you is the real reason) and project them onto me?  Talking to you is like talking to a robot.  Did they give you a script?

Did I ever ask you to believe in something that doesn't exist in your mind? That would have been unfair. I'm sorry.

[Astreja]

The ability to see intelligent design has nothing to do with circular reasoning.

You are trying to work backwards and use the universe as evidence for a completely undetectable entity.  You are claiming that a cause/effect relationship exists between your god and the universe, but you have not demonstrated that; you are merely asserting it.  You cannot just define your god into existence by claiming that it is the cause of something else.

That's like saying that the electrician who repairs your appliances ought to use a sledge hammer, because according to you, there is nothing profound to them.

Produce the exact quote where I said something to the effect of "according to you, there is nothing profound to them."

As for rebellion against nothing, the topic is "rebellion against god."

Your alleged god is a nothing in my eyes.  It is a fictional being totally bereft of power.

And for the end times theology, I really can't blame you for your distaste there, just look at YouTube.

SDA is an end-times cult.  It believes in a second coming, and in the destruction of non-believers.  Own your religion's barbarity, or renounce it.