What beliefs would we consider reasonable for a self proclaimed Christian to hold?

[vulcanlogician]

It doesn't matter because perfectly healthy brains can experience hallucinatory experiences.

And your first article starts with a quote from Heisenberg--it's something that he never said. I kinda stopped there. The podcast is an hour long. Too frikkin' long!

Look, next time your on, put a link to something relatively brief that you think makes a rock solid case for NDEs and I'll look at it. But you may as well not even bother posting an hour-long podcast, man. You can have hour-long podcasts about the moon being a hologram. Nobody wants to sit through an hour of unsubstantiated claims.

I did a google search on the quote. It seems that Helsenberg did actually say that. Here is another site if you are interested:   http://the-formula.org/how-to-deal-with-...-atheists/

I'll get back to you on your link. Meanwhile...

Misattributed [to Heisenberg]

[actual source]
The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you.
“Der erste Trunk aus dem Becher der Naturwissenschaft macht atheistisch, aber auf dem Grund des Bechers wartet Gott.” in 15 Jahrhunderte Würzburg: e. Stadt u. ihre Geschichte [15 centuries Würzburg. A city and its history] (1979), p. 205, by Heinz Otremba.

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Werner_Heisenberg

[Banned]

I haven't read the comments on NDE's. It's not what people think it is, but just the mind experiencing it's own chemical cocktail.

That has been proven inaccurate. Many NDEs have nothing to do with drugs, lack of oxygen, or chemicals released by the body.

There is one other aspect of NDE's which I haven't mentioned. But I don't think that it is appropriate to talk about now.
Nevertheless, the belief that people have an immortal soul of some sort, is the basis of making more of NDE's than what it actually is, and such a false belief is also an entry point for Satanic delusions.

[vulcanlogician]

I don't think people have an immortal soul of some sort... I guess I'm immune to Satanic delusions...

[Whateverist]

I don't think people have an immortal soul of some sort... I guess I'm immune to Satanic delusions...

There might still be room for yogic delusions?

[vulcanlogician]

I don't think people have an immortal soul of some sort... I guess I'm immune to Satanic delusions...

There might still be room for yogic delusions?  

I seriously doubt Banned has a special category for yogic delusions. In fact, I think he has only two categories for things:

1) What Seventh Day Adventists think

2) Satanic Delusions

[Silver]

Poops, wrong thread, but it can go here:

The majority of people claim to be religious, yet they still do immoral things. Clearly, adherence to a religious belief has not impacted them. Clearly, religion has not fixed the problem of immorality whatsoever.

[GrandizerII]

Bullshit on NDEs having nothing to do with chemicals in the body.

http://the-formula.org/ndes-absolutely-p...ng-brains/

So what about this link that addresses my skepticism above? You're not really doing much to address what I'm saying. Perhaps point me to the specific part where it is shown that NDEs occur without chemicals being released in the body.

[Drich]

don't be dense.

If side deity was reported to walk among us 2000 years ago (a measure of time outside the scope of 'science') then science is restricted by time however you want to classify it.

Say . . . what?  Yeah, maybe I am dense.  That made absolutely NO sense.
A "deity", according to some books of fables, supposedly walked on the planet 2000 years ago.  We understand 2000 years very well.  That's time.  It's a numerical measure of the earth's rotation.  Yes, science is restricted by time.  Every creature, every plant, the earth itself, the solar system, is measured by time.

This does not make time a 4th dimension, it is a measurement only.  And that measurement provides absolutely no data applicable to the existence of any deity.

You are a fool who would argue me if I said the sky is blue, and then at the end conclude the sky is blue. 1/2 the time you speak you loose yourself or start out not understanding what I was saying.

I simply said science is a three dimensional form of observation. The I pointed out anything outside this scope is beyond the purview of science. Then I made examples using time as a measure or dimension that take all of what science 'knows' and turns it on it's ear. Because once a subject becomes lost to time science stops being a tool of precision and accuracy and then becomes a guessing game. This is true even if you take the standard 3 dimensions and put one outside of our ablity to observe it.

Which means 'science' can ever hope to catalog and define a simple fraction of the what is and what was.

Why did I use the word dimension to define time as a point of measure, because the term defines a measurable extent and time is measurable, yet out puts knoweledge outside the scope of almighty science and it's worshipers. Making anyone who lay claim to times and knowledge beyond the abilities of all might 'science' men of great faith.

di·men·sion
dəˈmen(t)SH(ə)n,dīˈmen(t)SH(ə)n/
noun

1. 1.
   a measurable extent of some kind, such as length, breadth, depth, or height.
   "the final dimensions of the pond were 14 ft. x 8 ft"
   synonyms:
   size, measurements, proportions, extent; More
   
   
   
   
   

[Mister Agenda]

Yeah, that magical being who somehow exists beyond the constraints of logical existence and magically molds things out of "nothing" at all. Yeah, that's sooo logical.

Miracles always seem impossible to those who do not understand the science behind them. If air was opaque we would all be in the dark.

If there's science behind them, they aren't miracles.

---

That has been proven inaccurate. Many NDEs have nothing to do with drugs, lack of oxygen, or chemicals released by the body.

I would love to hear the method by which it was determined that chemicals released by the body had nothing to do with what someone was experiencing.

[LadyForCamus]

Say . . . what?  Yeah, maybe I am dense.  That made absolutely NO sense.
A "deity", according to some books of fables, supposedly walked on the planet 2000 years ago.  We understand 2000 years very well.  That's time.  It's a numerical measure of the earth's rotation.  Yes, science is restricted by time.  Every creature, every plant, the earth itself, the solar system, is measured by time.

This does not make time a 4th dimension, it is a measurement only.  And that measurement provides absolutely no data applicable to the existence of any deity.

You are a fool who would argue me if I said the sky is blue, and then at the end conclude the sky is blue. 1/2 the time you speak you loose yourself or start out not understanding what I was saying.

I simply said science is a three dimensional form of observation. The I pointed out anything outside this scope is beyond the purview of science. Then I made examples using time as a measure or dimension that take all of what science 'knows' and turns it on it's ear. Because once a subject becomes lost to time science stops being a tool of precision and accuracy and then becomes a guessing game. This is true even if you take the standard 3 dimensions and put one outside of our ablity to observe it.

Which means 'science' can ever hope to catalog and define a simple fraction of the what is and what was.

Why did I use the word dimension to define time as a point of measure, because the term defines a measurable extent and time is measurable, yet out puts knoweledge outside the scope of almighty science and it's worshipers. Making anyone who lay claim to times and knowledge beyond the abilities of all might 'science' men of great faith.

di·men·sion
dəˈmen(t)SH(ə)n,dīˈmen(t)SH(ə)n/
noun

1. 1.
   a measurable extent of some kind, such as length, breadth, depth, or height.
   "the final dimensions of the pond were 14 ft. x 8 ft"
   synonyms:
   size, measurements, proportions, extent; More
   
   
   
   
   

FFS, Drich.  It’s, ‘lose’.  Not, ‘loose’.

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