Grade school girls can't say No when asked to dance

[Cod]

Surely there should be some sort of law against dancing.

[John V]

I'm guessing you're referencing gay people trying to buy wedding cakes from bigots. If I'm wrong, correct me, because I know cake in general can be really emotional. Here's the thing, it's not traumatic. People don't claim it is.

You know it's not traumatic, and so do I. I don't know if that claim has been made regarding cakes specifically, but consider...college safe spaces...a college offering counseling just because Ben Shapiro was scheduled to speak there...comfort animals... My devil's advocate position isn't unrealistic. There are plenty of people who (claim to) get traumatized pretty easily these days.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Surely there should be some sort of law against dancing.

There you go getting all Southern Baptist on us!

[LastPoet]

? I think you might have popped for no reason. CD and I are on good terms, to my knowledge. If I conveyed anything to make anyone think that I was bickering with him, rather than respectfully conversing, let me clear that up now. I might have dry delivery, but I'm just chatting with him.

Huh?

[Catholic_Lady]

The 2 go together though. If you say a person raped and killed someone because they are simply mentally ill but not a bad person, you are using mental illness as an excuse for the atrocity they commited.

Do they? I don't think so.

We still prosecute, convict, and incarcerate (or alternatively institutionalize) such individuals. It doesn't justify their behavior. It doesn't release them from accountability.

In what way are we excusing them, again?

If you say someone rapes and kills people due to mental illness, and NOT due to being a bad person, you're using their mental illness as an excuse for their behavior. By giving their character a break. "That rapist murder is not really a bad guy. He just has a mental illness."

[Thumpalumpacus]

What if that person has been, over his or her 40 years alive, a good person, but has a psychotic break, complete with hallucinations? Does that mean their crime arose out of innate badness?

[Shell B]

The 2 go together though. If you say a person raped and killed someone because they are simply mentally ill but not a bad person, you are using mental illness as an excuse for the atrocity they commited.

I haven't looked up the science for what I'm about to say, but it seems intuitive at least that one would have to be mentally ill to, at least in many/most cases, do such atrocious things as to rape or murder. When I think "evil" with reference to people, a lot of the times, I'm thinking "fucked in the head". I think it's rare that someone could be evil and yet be quite sane.

And as others have said, it doesn't mean we're using mental illness as an excuse. Rather, it's important to acknowledge that mental illness can play a contributing factor in leading to "evil" behaviour. We shouldn't ignore this possibility just because it doesn't make some people feel good about it.

Sanity in court is just being able to understand what you did was wrong (paraphrasing). You can definitely commit atrocities without having a mental illness, and mental illnesses don’t make you more prone to committing atrocities.

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? I think you might have popped for no reason. CD and I are on good terms, to my knowledge. If I conveyed anything to make anyone think that I was bickering with him, rather than respectfully conversing, let me clear that up now. I might have dry delivery, but I'm just chatting with him.

Huh?

How can you be confused? What was the popcorn about?

[GrandizerII]

I haven't looked up the science for what I'm about to say, but it seems intuitive at least that one would have to be mentally ill to, at least in many/most cases, do such atrocious things as to rape or murder. When I think "evil" with reference to people, a lot of the times, I'm thinking "fucked in the head". I think it's rare that someone could be evil and yet be quite sane.

And as others have said, it doesn't mean we're using mental illness as an excuse. Rather, it's important to acknowledge that mental illness can play a contributing factor in leading to "evil" behaviour. We shouldn't ignore this possibility just because it doesn't make some people feel good about it.

Sanity in court is just being able to understand what you did was wrong (paraphrasing). You can definitely commit atrocities without having a mental illness, and mental illnesses don’t make you more prone to committing atrocities

So you think sanity in court, or for legal purposes, is always truly reflective of the criminal's state of mind? There's often a conflict between what the laws rule and what philosophy and/or psychology say about free will.

Also, I do NOT think all types of mental illnesses increase the likelihood of atrocities.

[Rev. Rye]

Wow. I made a remark about Elliott Rodger to point out the consequences of this plan, and the thread got derailed into questions of how culpable mental illness makes a criminal.

[Shell B]

Sanity in court is just being able to understand what you did was wrong (paraphrasing). You can definitely commit atrocities without having a mental illness, and mental illnesses don’t make you more prone to committing atrocities

So you think sanity in court, or for legal purposes, is always truly reflective of the criminal's state of mind? There's often a conflict between what the laws rule and what philosophy and/or psychology say about free will.

Also, I do NOT think all types of mental illnesses increase the likelihood of atrocities.

Bold mine. You'll have to clarify this statement for me. Do I think the rule reflects a criminal's state of mind? That doesn't make sense. Do I think the rulings based on the sanity laws are always reflective of the criminal's state of mind? Well, no. The court isn't infallible. Do I think the ability to know right from wrong is a fair judgment of sanity? Yes.

I don't think ANY mental illness increased the likelihood of atrocities. I know someone's about to whip out schizophrenia, and I would caution against that. Schizophrenia is not the demon it's made out to be in horror movies. A few insane criminals hear voices and people think schizophrenics are dangerous. It's absurd. Another one people love to demonize is post-partum depression. There have been a handful of cases where severely depressed AND delusional women have harmed their babies. For the vast majority of women with PPD, they are much less likely to hurt their babies. In fact, they live in terror of accidentally hurting them.

Anyway, it's actually much more common for mentally ill people to be victims than perpetrators, and it seems like any bump in criminality among the mentally ill can be explained by environmental factors or co-occurring drug abuse.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/newslette...d-violence

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Wow. I made a remark about Elliott Rodger to point out the consequences of this plan, and the thread got derailed into questions of how culpable mental illness makes a criminal.

Oh, well. They can split it if they want to.