Knowing god outside a biblical sense

[vorlon13]

Er . . .

The phrase "A man approved of God" denies Jesus' divinity.

[Godscreated]

We determine those things by what God says in His word.

GC

So... we are still talking in a Biblical sense? I guess I won't disagree. You think the words from the Bible are God's word. And then you determine it with your interpretation of it.

I see a problem with that.

I don't really care if you do, it is the truth and that is all it neads to be.

GC

[Godscreated]

We determine those things by what God says in His word.

GC

FTFY.

95% of Christians would renounce their religion this very minute if there wasn't "very much loophole" circumventing Matthew 7:1. And since that is something that actually came directly from the mouth of God, God's word doesn't really mean shit to the believer.

I see you love to cherry pick, I'm sure there's a job for you in a cherry orchard. There are verses that follow that one and at the end it says once we have corrected our problem we can help others correct their's. Since you recognize those words came directly from the mouth of God why are you disobeying them even in this very post.

GC

[vulcanlogician]

FTFY.

95% of Christians would renounce their religion this very minute if there wasn't "very much loophole" circumventing Matthew 7:1. And since that is something that actually came directly from the mouth of God, God's word doesn't really mean shit to the believer.

I see you love to cherry pick, I'm sure there's a job for you in a cherry orchard. There are verses that follow that one and at the end it says once we have corrected our problem we can help others correct their's. Since you recognize those words came directly from the mouth of God why are you disobeying them even in this very post.

GC

Allow me to clarify: according to Christian belief those words come from the mouth of God. If I was to point out to a fundamentalist Muslim or Jew that they eat bacon, I would not have to take on on the religious beliefs in question in order to point out that the person in question didn't follow them.

One of my favorite Christian authors is Leo Tolstoy. He agrees with my assessment here (or, more precisely, I agree with him, because he introduced me to the idea). He said that Jesus gave a number of clear commandments that nobody follows (or even attempts to follow). And at the same time, these very same people point the finger at nonbelievers for lacking a moral compass. He took Matthew 7:1 literally. In fact, he took every word from Jesus in the Bible literally. And instead of trying to square the circle when something elsewhere in the Bible contradicted what Jesus says, he took Jesus's commandment to be the more compelling of the two. (BTW, he was excommunicated from the Orthodox church for heresy.)

[vorlon13]

So... we are still talking in a Biblical sense? I guess I won't disagree. You think the words from the Bible are God's word. And then you determine it with your interpretation of it.

I see a problem with that.

I don't really care if you do, it is the truth and that is all it neads to be.

GC

Tens of thousands of denominations, sects, schisms, and independent churches precludes there being a specific 'truth'. There are tens of thousands of opinions. Clearly, tens of thousands of versions of a truth discredits a truth as a truth.

[Godscreated]

I see you love to cherry pick, I'm sure there's a job for you in a cherry orchard. There are verses that follow that one and at the end it says once we have corrected our problem we can help others correct their's. Since you recognize those words came directly from the mouth of God why are you disobeying them even in this very post.

GC

Allow me to clarify: according to Christian belief those words come from the mouth of God. If I was to point out to a fundamentalist Muslim or Jew that they eat bacon, I would not have to take on on the religious beliefs in question in order to point out that the person in question didn't follow them.

Whatever, you still throw up a verse and say we do not obey it and yet to make your post you disobey it, that in no way has any strength in an argument.

One of my favorite Christian authors is Leo Tolstoy. He agrees with my assessment here (or, more precisely, I agree with him, because he introduced me to the idea). He said that Jesus gave a number of clear commandments that nobody follows (or even attempts to follow). And at the same time, these very same people point the finger at nonbelievers for lacking a moral compass. He took Matthew 7:1 literally. In fact, he took every word from Jesus in the Bible literally. And instead of trying to square the circle when something elsewhere in the Bible contradicted what Jesus says, he took Jesus's commandment to be the more compelling of the two. (BTW, he was excommunicated from the Orthodox church for heresy.)

 Many words Christ spoke are not obeyed by Christians, that's why we need the saving grace of God through the death and resurrection of Christ. Works do not save, salvation come as an unmerited gift, works show that a person is changing their life to serve God. If there is no works or changes then there was most likely no salvation. 
I never said that verse wasn't correct because it is, what I said was that we can judge (best silently) in an effort to help someone else after we have cleaned up that part of our life through our relationship with God. Paul points out that we can know the wolves in sheep's clothing within the church and that we are suppose to get rid of them if they do not change. I haven't read Tolstoy because I would rather read what God has to say than man, man can be misleading and anything from man must be in compliance with the scriptures.

GC

[The Grand Nudger]

Magic books the reason you haven't read tolstoy? That's probably the dreariest thing I've ever read.

[Godscreated]

I don't really care if you do, it is the truth and that is all it neads to be.

GC

Tens of thousands of denominations, sects, schisms, and independent churches precludes there being a specific 'truth'.  There are tens of thousands of opinions.  Clearly, tens of thousands of versions of a truth discredits a truth as a truth.

Yes your favorite little meaningless saying, now it's time to prove your claim, I want ask you to name the tens of thousands of denomination and ect. I'm asking you to show us the tens of thousands of different beliefs that contradict and separate the denominations. If you can't do this then quit using such nonsense, you do not have to post them you can PM them to me, just remember that PM's are not rightfully hidden from forum.

GC

[vulcanlogician]

Allow me to clarify: according to Christian belief those words come from the mouth of God. If I was to point out to a fundamentalist Muslim or Jew that they eat bacon, I would not have to take on on the religious beliefs in question in order to point out that the person in question didn't follow them.

Whatever, you still throw up a verse and say we do not obey it and yet to make your post you disobey it, that in no way has any strength in an argument.

Wrong, dude! If a Muslim says that it's against his religion to eat pork, and I see him eat pork, I can confidently say that he has violated the commandments of his own religion. I could be eating a plate of bacon while do it and that would say nothing about the strength of my argument.

[vorlon13]

Answer by A.J. Boyd
Catholic Ecumenist in Rome

There are about 41,000 different Christian denominations in five major 'families' of churches/communion. The percentages in brackets indicate the percent of the Christian population affiliated with each 'family' or group of denominations:



The Catholic Church [50%]
Historic Protestant and Anglican churches [18%]
The Eastern Churches (Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Church of the East) [12%]

Pentecostal churches [12%]
Evangelical (non-Pentecostal) [8%]




I assume you figured I was using a number cooked up by an atheist. Nah, a noted Catholic came up with the 41,000 number. I've actually 'liked' the 35,000 number and then add a comparable number of unaffiliated/independent "one of" churches, for a total of around 75,000. The number is most likely vastly larger.

I can hardly imagine any skepticism over the total number of Christian schisms just from one particular schism in the Amish world where one schism formed ENTIRELY over the allowable width of a hat brim. Please DO NOT underestimate the importance and desirability of schisming to Christians. If it was NOT a sacrament of the faith, Christ would have anticipated the problem and tweaked His nascent religion to preclude the practice, -or- Apostle Paul would have received another 'blinding light' missive from the Lord God Almighty banning the practice.

I also note that in less than 200 years, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (The Mormons) have themselves experienced over 100 schisms. My personal favorite Mormon schism is The Congregation of Jehovah's Presbytery of Zion, The Baneemyites. I pretty much picked that one at random. At one time, they had hundreds of members, there may not be too many (any?) active members today.

Might as well get on board with 'mainline' Christian belief and practice and embrace the schism, hate to see anyone out there twisting in the wind on this topic by themselves.