Open discussion of the Christian Why We're Here thread

[Whateverist]

I don't think he realizes it though. Lolz. 

As for what I think of the debate and the posts within? 

CL: Joined here three months after I did. She's been a wonderful friend, even when we engage in back and forth posts where I strongly disagree with her opinions. Her thread prompting the birth of the Christian-only debate is a prime example of how she accepts my thoughts without taking it very personally. I love her dearly and as far as my RL friends go - I consider her to be in my small circle of people I trust.

She knows where I stood on having a section just for theists, as did everyone. Still - neither of us resorted to name calling each other. I believe there's a good reason for that. It is because CL never says a harsh word about anyone on here, regardless of who it is. Opinions about faith and beliefs run the gamut on here and CL has dealt with her share of being bullied (for lack of a better word). There are times she's wanted to leave. I convinced her to stay. Truth be told, we need her here. She's a great presence on this site. We've both learned from each other, I think. 

Given her viewpoints and tolerance with certain subjects, I'm hesitant to regard her as Catholic anymore. I can't even regard her as Episcopalian because her some of her views are far too progressive for either religion. And there's nothing wrong with that. I feel that she has a better understanding of the world and the way it is, because she is open to listening to others' thoughts on hotly contested topics. She also stands her ground when she feels she needs to.  This is why I feel she's a good influence on the forum. She listens and then she gives her thoughts. All without being brutal or calling names or being insulting.  

GC: He's a mixed bag for me, tbh. On the one hand, he's been incredibly supportive of me and my journey of being a non-smoker (ten months now smoke free). On many of the off topic threads he contributes to, he comes across as an average guy and for the most part, only brings religion into threads in the religion sections of the forum. He too, is another decent contributor but on the other hand, I feel that perhaps debating with him would work better if the preaching was left out of his posts. That's just my opinion, of course, but we're being honest and that's how I feel. 

I didn't join AF to be preached to. If I wanted that, I would have gone to a religious forum.

Alpha Male: As harsh as some of it was, I appreciate the honesty in his post. I miss him in Mafia. Religion aside - he's a really good Mafia player and I for that, I wish he was around more. Both him and CL have never, to my knowledge, brought religion into the Mafia games. I appreciate that because 99% of that game is mentally messing with everyone else and it can get really emotionally intense at times. 

He said this: 

It's a shame you think this way. When someone gets to know you through Mafia, you're not the same person that I see posting elsewhere on the forums. 


Personally, once we can cut through all of the mud-slinging and the insults - I think you make good contributions here, even if others are in disagreement with that. We can all learn something from each other, as someone else said. If I remember correctly, I think you're the one with five children. I have four myself. Perhaps we could trade parenting stories sometime. I'd like to find common ground with the theists here. Religion isn't necessary for that because there are so many other things we can learn about each other. I'm not going to convince you to stick around, as you are free to go, but I think this forum would be losing a good person from the Religious Team that's here. So, don't go. 



I disagree with the undertone of saying that she can't make friends here. Of course she could make them elsewhere on the WWW. But I would never have known her if she hadn't ventured in here. She's been a wonderful friend to many of us here. 

Drich: I can't go there. I'm not ready to be forgiving as there's been a lot of fire between us on a lot of things. I won't apologize for that either. So I'm just going to leave it at that because I just can't find it in myself to say nice things at the moment. 

A Theist: I have come to personally know A Theist through a series of PM's in the first part of this year, I believe. He's also been one of the theists here that I've come to defend. Not that he needs it. But along with Deb, I feel he's a valuable contributor here. It's those two that I have a warm spot in my heart for. Believe it or not, the member's photo thread can be looked at as an opportunity to see the human side of those members we would not otherwise give a second glance to. I for one, look forward to seeing all of the wonderful hats he creates and I love teasing him for not smiling in his pictures. If anyone has the privilege of getting to know him "behind the scenes", he's really a nice, sweet person. 

So because of what I consider to be a friendship with AT, like CL, I tend to shy away from many religious threads where they are active because honestly, religion and politics are two of the topics I tend to avoid discussing with close friends unless they happen to share my views. It's a tightrope I don't have an interest in walking on because I value my friendships more than our differing of opinion on those topics. 

That said, I'm glad he posted his thoughts in the Christian only debate thread. That raw honesty gave me a chance to learn more about him than what I had previously known.

Why, thankee, Joods! I appreciate that! Here's a great big ol' smile for you! 😁 In all seriousness, I value our friendship too. I've always considered you to be one of the more insightful members here...and I do appreciate some of the "positive" feedback  from a few of those who posted their observations. Also, I don't want you to feel like not wanting to challenge me in a discussion because of our friendship. Even from those who may annoy me just a tad from time to time, I don't take it personal. I would have been out of here a long time ago if I did. Here's another big ol' smile for you! 😁

What the hell kind of avatar is that you're sporting?  Where is your non-smiling mug with a hat on top?

[A Theist]

Why, thankee, Joods! I appreciate that! Here's a great big ol' smile for you! 😁 In all seriousness, I value our friendship too. I've always considered you to be one of the more insightful members here...and I do appreciate some of the "positive" feedback  from a few of those who posted their observations. Also, I don't want you to feel like not wanting to challenge me in a discussion because of our friendship. Even from those who may annoy me just a tad from time to time, I don't take it personal. I would have been out of here a long time ago if I did. Here's another big ol' smile for you! 😁

What the hell kind of avatar is that you're sporting?  Where is your non-smiling mug with a hat on top?

It just disappeared one day. I don't know what happened to it. I'm going to have to get one back up there. Could be a problem with the photo sharing site I'm using.  Here's a temporary non smiling mug until I can see about putting up another one. 

[Joods]

I agree with most all of this except for two things.  One, I haven't read Drich because he belongs on ignore.  And two, Neo's obsession with a Christian agenda bothers me less than his obsession with treating people as objects.  Perhaps he is somewhere on the spectrum or maybe he is depressed.  People who suffer from anhedonia aren't motivated by the normal range of human responses and also have difficulty understanding the motives of others.  

My bold. I would have given your post a thorough response like I always do (to everyone, even people I should feel nothing but contempt for... and I actually really like you Whateves)

But... I stopped reading after the bolded part. I think you are confusing autism with psychopathy. I've had a stressful, unusual and very much lonely day (I did an hour's walk home at 1.30 in the morning in the dark) so perhaps I am being hypersensitive but this made my gut sink.

And yeah, Neo is an unfeeling cunt who treats people like objects. I don't though, and as you know I'm very much "on the spectrum." Unfortunately.

Imagine how I feel when I see people dropping the R word like it's acceptable. Isn't very nice, when people bring up a disability that you personally are dealing with. Same thing goes for the word retard in any form. You'll have to do what I've had to do - grow a tough skin and understand that people use hurtful words in this manner all the time. Sometimes they mean to be hurtful and sometimes they don't.

[LadyForCamus]

If anyone is a role model for how not to behave on forums, and how not to think about atheists, it has to be Chad/Neo. I hope the other Christians put him straight on some of the nonsense he's putting out there.

That is going to be the big question going forward in that thread.  Will the other Christians, particularly CL, be willing to openly disagree with him?  Or is this just gonna play out as an, ‘it’s us against them’, circle jerk?

[Whateverist]

My bold. I would have given your post a thorough response like I always do (to everyone, even people I should feel nothing but contempt for... and I actually really like you Whateves)

But... I stopped reading after the bolded part. I think you are confusing autism with psychopathy. I've had a stressful, unusual and very much lonely day (I did an hour's walk home at 1.30 in the morning in the dark) so perhaps I am being hypersensitive but this made my gut sink.

And yeah, Neo is an unfeeling cunt who treats people like objects. I don't though, and as you know I'm very much "on the spectrum." Unfortunately.

Imagine how I feel when I see people dropping the R word like it's acceptable. Isn't very nice, when people bring up a disability that you personally are dealing with. Same thing goes for the word retard in any form. You'll have to do what I've had to do - grow a tough skin and understand that people use hurtful words in this manner all the time. Sometimes they mean to be hurtful and sometimes they don't.

I think what I said is being misconstrued.  I was suggesting that their might be ordinary, constitutional variation in the way Neo is wired which is making it difficult for him to apply empathy.  That hardly implies that everyone on the spectrum is an asshole.

[Joods]

Imagine how I feel when I see people dropping the R word like it's acceptable. Isn't very nice, when people bring up a disability that you personally are dealing with. Same thing goes for the word retard in any form. You'll have to do what I've had to do - grow a tough skin and understand that people use hurtful words in this manner all the time. Sometimes they mean to be hurtful and sometimes they don't.

I think what I said is being misconstrued.  I was suggesting that their might be ordinary, constitutional variation in the way Neo is wired which is making it difficult for him to apply empathy.  That hardly implies that everyone on the spectrum is an asshole.

I understood what you said. I think Hammy didn't understand and expressed himself as he was offended or bothered by the fact that autism was brought into the conversation. He admits to not reading past the part of your post that he bolded.

What I was relaying from his impression, was sort of a "see how it feels" position. People use the R word all the time here, knowing I have a daughter with MR. Doesn't seem to bother them to use that word, so I've had to just get over it and accept the fact that some people don't care who they hurt. My point with this to Hammy was, knowing that he uses the R word quite frequently, that it doesn't feel very nice when someone says things about a disability that's personal to you. Whether or not the intention was there to hurt, that's all.

[chimp3]

I relate to CL not wanting to have these conversations with people off line. That is why I am on this fotum and AR. My family, friends, coworkers are mostly religious. No use muddying up already complicated relationships. 

One of the members at AR has said her personal reason for being there was to contribute to the normalization of atheism. I have adopted that stance

[Whateverist]

I think what I said is being misconstrued.  I was suggesting that their might be ordinary, constitutional variation in the way Neo is wired which is making it difficult for him to apply empathy.  That hardly implies that everyone on the spectrum is an asshole.

I understood what you said. I think Hammy didn't understand and expressed himself as he was offended or bothered by the fact that autism was brought into the conversation. He admits to not reading past the part of your post that he bolded.

What I was relaying from his impression, was sort of a "see how it feels" position. People use the R word all the time here, knowing I have a daughter with MR. Doesn't seem to bother them to use that word, so I've had to just get over it and accept the fact that some people don't care who they hurt. My point with this to Hammy was, knowing that he uses the R word quite frequently, that it doesn't feel very nice when someone says things about a disability that's personal to you. Whether or not the intention was there to hurt, that's all.

But is it rude for people not on the spectrum to use their understanding of what that means gained from interactions with people who were as well as from what we've managed to learn about it to try to understand someone's actions?  Neo's actions just struck me as empathically tone deaf.  Not every person on the spectrum is that way, but many have to work harder to gain that capacity or else find work-arounds for it.  

I find Neo's conduct reprehensible and I was fishing around for excusing conditions because I have liked interacting with him before.  So I was just brainstorming ways in which Neo's behavior could have to do with how he experiences the world.  

Obviously it would have been better not to go there at all.  But I don't think that is really analogous to calling someone the spectrum equivalent of a "something-tard".  Maybe I'm just not getting it.

[robvalue]

If anyone is a role model for how not to behave on forums, and how not to think about atheists, it has to be Chad/Neo. I hope the other Christians put him straight on some of the nonsense he's putting out there.

That is going to be the big question going forward in that thread.  Will the other Christians, particularly CL, be willing to openly disagree with him?  Or is this just gonna play out as an, ‘it’s us against them’, circle jerk?

I’m impressed with CL’s rebuttal. I get very tired of the lock-step we sometimes get too, so this was refreshing.

Chad just can’t stand people who think differently to him. His psychology is very interesting, as he continues to associate with us regardless of his obvious contempt. He’s showing he doesn’t even need an actual atheist for a discussion, he’s ascended to the point where he debates his own creations.

He expects reverence of his intellect, IMO, and when he doesn’t get it he turns nasty.

[Catholic_Lady]

It's a pointless wankfest.

As I said the original idea was more of an agenda item at a committee meeting than anything conducive to a discussion. And limiting it to christians only (especially the type we get here, of which cl is far more typical than some people believe*) only turns it into an echo chamber of "atheists are mean, why don't they believe what we tell them?"

*Edit: it's my experience that christians (and other religionists) on places like here and religious fora online are very atypical to the vast majority of religious people in real life. They tend towards fundamentalism a lot more easily and readily than most. In real life I had no problem spending two years working with a group of nuns, I wouldn't last five minutes in the same room with any of the religious posters on this site.

I am genuinely curious to know, which of my Catholic beliefs do you think is "more fundamentalist" than those of a group of nuns?

Helloooo? You gonna answer this Wololo?? Yay or nay?