Peterson's 12 Rules For Life, have you heard of this?

[The Grand Nudger]

The confusion arises in the fact that nazis, white supremacists, and other assorted undesirables have realized that their views are not defensible on their own merits..and so have resorted to grifting free speech as a way to reframe the narrative and paint their opposition as dangerous leftist radicals trying to culture war and/or white genocide them to death.

This strategy has been so effective..that people who are not nazis, white supremacists and other undesirables unknowingly drink the koolaid, regurgitate the script word-for-word..and respond with genuinely hurt feelings when they find themselves categorized with those people for reasons they don't comprehend.

[robvalue]

That's really sad. I don't know how to reach someone who enters one of these bubbles. It seems as impossible as reaching an indoctrinated theist. It comes to the point where I have to question my own sanity as a benchmark. I feel like either I have lost my grip on reality, or they have, and there isn't any middle ground. I never discount that it could be me, so I do all I can to test my own positions and beliefs.

When it comes to this bill, there's no opinion involved, it's a matter of simple facts. He's making claims which aren't true. If someone can't see that, then like I said, one of us has lost the plot. One of us does not understand what is going on. I often re-check the facts to see if it's me.

(Of course, harassment can include misgendering, just like it can include racial slurs, homophobic language, and so on. This isn't the same as misgendering in general being legally made into harassment.)

[The Grand Nudger]

It's downright fucking tragic..and since Petersons legitimizing device is his past work in psychology, it's worth noting that some of the angst in subsequent arguments over the man boil down to sunk cost.

The amount of times a person has argued Petersons case, cause, or person becomes a driving factor in continuing to do so even presented with facts to the contrary.  It's no longer about him, his views, or his misrepresentations.  It becomes more and more difficult to abandon what we have been repeatedly shown to be untrue.

[robvalue]

I think you're absolutely right, and that is another parallel with religion.

[bennyboy]

For example..the phrase "I don't like identity politics" - has become a euphemism for ones discomfort in discussions of racial discrimination or gender inequality....because of a feeling that one is constantly being blamed for those things.  Now, you can tell me I'm wrong and that I'm full of shit but...this thread exists and you've laid your heart bare on that count multiple times.

I don't need euphemisms. If I decide I don't like black people in general, that'll be the title of my next thread I promise.

I currently admire two black people I've recently worked with, and they are both from Canada. So maybe it isn't black people that are so freaking annoying-- maybe it's Americans that are annoying, responsibility-dodging bitches, or college kids or something-- or that American black people have a chip on their shoulder, and they think I'm a good enough proxy for whatever the fuck YOU assholes did to them that they're justified in unloading on me.

On a more general note, to widen the lens... let's take a dim view of identity politics as you see them.  The effect is that some uninformed asshole might complain about racism they may or may not have experienced in the past, to a person who has no obvious (or actual) connection to that in the present.  That's a thing.  It happens.  OTOH, the white male fright industry, as exemplified by talking heads like Peterson..has gifted a Trump presidency and resurgent global nativist fascism to the world.

On balance....I'll take the assholes screaming at randos all day..erry day.

You?

I don't blame Trump tbh. He's a fucking orangutan, and has really never been anything but, at least not since he was a rich young democrat. I blame the many millions who voted for him, and even more than that, the party that thought a lizard in a pant suit was going to have enough charisma to beat at TV star on TV.

As for the false dilemma, I'll take column "C" please-- I want to live my life, and for people around me to act reasonably predictably; and most of all, I don't want their stupid fucking orientations and dogma to interfere with my ability to have goals that matter and follow through on them.

[The Grand Nudger]

For example..the phrase "I don't like identity politics" - has become a euphemism for ones discomfort in discussions of racial discrimination or gender inequality....because of a feeling that one is constantly being blamed for those things.  Now, you can tell me I'm wrong and that I'm full of shit but...this thread exists and you've laid your heart bare on that count multiple times.

I don't need euphemisms.  If I decide I don't like black people in general, that'll be the title of my next thread I promise.

I currently admire two black people I've recently worked with, and they are both from Canada.  So maybe it isn't black people that are so freaking annoying-- maybe it's Americans that are annoying, responsibility-dodging bitches, or college kids or something.

But nah, I had a Hispanic girl and a Chinese American, and they were among my best workers.

-and I have alot of black friends! 

I'm not saying you need euphemisms, Benny..I'm pointing out that you've employed one, either wittingly or unwittingly.  That you have made a euphemism for your noted discomfort the definition of an ideology...but that this euphemism does not accurately describe that ideology.  Further, that the employment of this euphemism is, in fact...a fully accurate expression of the very thing you've employed it against.

Take a step back and see how this thread panned out. For many, many pages you derided people who were telling you true things about a person who employed this euphemism in a manner similar to the way you do. A person who's academic credentials, though irrelevant, and whose compatriotism in that limited area... emboldened you in your wrong headed certitude....caused you to sink your own personal credibility and credulity into a doomed argument.

You are doing this same thing with "the pc left". In the process you are repeatedly falling into stereotypes of people you would not associate or identify yourself with.

In that dilemma of shit vs. poo,

IKR?

---

-and before it even happens.  Don't bother responding with some comment meant to express that you are not a filthy racist or misogynist or transphobe or nutball conspiracist who thinks that marxists are out to get you.


I don't think you actually -are- any of those things.  I think that you are reading their script because they have successfully convinced you of what is untrue, and that your life experiences probably have something to do with being categorized among them for reasons you are unable to comprehend (or are simply unwilling to confront).

[Neo-Scholastic]

To the OP:

Jordan B. Peterson is not easily pigeonholed because his thinking is expansive and nuanced. As such it is easy to project your own angels and demons into what he presents. Here is list I found of topics he frequently discusses...

The evolutionary basis for human morality, social structure, and individual and collective psychology
Comparative mythology; cross-cultural archetypal stories and narratives
Practical self development advice
Ideology, belief, and the importance of free thought and speech
Jungian psychology, with emphasis on archetypes and the “shadow”
Anti-communism and anti-postmodernism/Neo-Marxism
Insights from experience in clinical practice
Christian revivalism
Practical implications of personality psychology, psychometrics and IQ
Nietzsche, Dostoyevsky, Solzhenitsyn, lobsters and more…

This seems pretty accurate. To my ears he is a Jungian through and through with the attending insights that are simultaneously unsurprising and profoundly insightful if you like that kind of thing. Very similar to Joseph Campbell in the 1990's.

[The Grand Nudger]

He's definitely jungian through and through.  He makes brilliant use (and explanation) of archetype...though he ends up employing it for patently ludicrous ends.

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@Benny

Let me try another route, here;

I want to live my life, and for people around me to act reasonably predictably; and most of all, I don't want their stupid fucking orientations and dogma to interfere with my ability to have goals that matter and follow through on them.

This sounds wonderful.  It's also pc leftist.  The stupid fucking orientation and dogma of white male grievance interferes with people's ability to have goals that matter to them and follow through on them.  It even interferes with yours....though that interference is far more oblique than the direct attacks on those disadvantaged or denigrated outgroups.

[robvalue]

I've tried all the basic elements to destroy the book. It even resisted all my special attacks. It still says 100% health when I examine it.

I've concluded that it may be some sort of indestructible anchor between our reality and another. I need to test whether this is unique to my copy, or whether they are all like this.

So if you see me burning a huge pile of his books, it's not because of any kind of problem I have with him.

[The Grand Nudger]

There's a rumor going around that if you stop looking at it...it'll disappear.