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American workers' wages stagnant, even in a great economy: why?
#11
RE: American workers' wages stagnant, even in a great economy: why?
(August 12, 2018 at 1:53 pm)Aegon Wrote: American Workers Just Got a Pay Cut in Economy Trump Calls Great

Quote:President Donald Trump has presided over an accelerating economy and the lowest unemployment in years, but American workers still aren’t seeing it in their wallets.

U.S. average hourly earnings adjusted for inflation fell 0.2 percent in July from a year earlier, data released on Friday showed, notching the lowest reading since 2012. While inflation isn’t high in historical terms, after years of being too low following the 2007-2009 recession, its recent gains are taking a bigger bite out of U.S. paychecks.

“Inflation has been climbing and wage growth, meanwhile, has been flat as a pancake,” said Laura Rosner, senior economist at MacroPolicy Perspectives LLC in New York. “In a very tight labor market you would expect that workers would negotiate their wages to at least keep up with the cost of living, and the picture tells you that they’re not.”

U.S. unemployment at 3.9 percent in July was near a 50-year low and a core measure of inflation that excludes food and energy prices has pushed to 2.4 percent, the highest reading in almost a decade. But wages are just not keeping up and part of the reason is probably a lack of bargaining power on the part of U.S. workers.

Ryan Sweet, an economist at Moody’s Analytics Inc. in West Chester, Pennsylvania, said given that inflation has been low in recent years, “the sense of urgency” hasn’t been there to negotiate for higher wages. In the post-recession labor market, workers have forgotten how to bargain.

“As the labor market came back, workers were just happy to have survived,” Sweet said. “They value their job security more than asking for a higher wage.”

What will determine real wages in the coming months is not inflation as much as what happen to wages, he said. “I do anticipate nominal wage growth picking up which should help drive up real wage gains over the next few months.”

As I've said countless times, the average worker suffers under the American economic model. Things have to change on a fundamental level. We know that wages have failed to keep up with inflation, and that the top 10 percent of income earners have seen magnificent gains while the rest of us have seen, statistically speaking, nothing. It seems Republicans (and moderate Democrats) have conditioned workers to be content with this reality. This has been an issue for over 30 years. Through Clinton and Obama too.

I align with the political philosophy of social democracy. It's time to take note from its success in the Nordic countries. The average American deserves more. Congress (Dems and Repubs alike) almost unanimously passed the disgusting and highly unnecessary $700 billion to our military complex while we bicker about whether or not we can afford a universal healthcare system. Repulsive.


Because the GOP has been masters at throwing crumbs at society getting them to focus on the short term feel good. Dangle the carrot on the hamster wheel, knowing they don't see the long term bubble the sort term feel good does.
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#12
RE: American workers' wages stagnant, even in a great economy: why?
It also causes an issue in that one president does something that causes a bubble, that bursts in the middle or beginning of the next president's term. So they can all blame the other guy for times being hard.
Poe's Law: "Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of Fundamentalism that SOMEONE won't mistake for the real thing."

10 Christ-like figures that predate Jesus. Link shortened to Chris ate Jesus for some reason...
http://listverse.com/2009/04/13/10-chris...ate-jesus/

Good video to watch, if you want to know how common the Jesus story really is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88GTUXvp-50

A list of biblical contradictions from the infallible word of Yahweh.
http://infidels.org/library/modern/jim_m...tions.html

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#13
RE: American workers' wages stagnant, even in a great economy: why?
Yeah...one wonder why it happens.

[Image: 20160806_WBC257.png]
Oh.  Right.  Greedy motherfuckers.
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#14
RE: American workers' wages stagnant, even in a great economy: why?
(August 12, 2018 at 2:12 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:
(August 12, 2018 at 2:06 pm)Chad32 Wrote: I have family that believes that if you increase wages, the price of everything will go up the exact same amount.

Yeah, that's kind of silly.  When wages increase, people have more disposable income, buy more stuff, creating a greater demand for services and manufactured goods, which increases production which lowers prices.  Economies of scale work best when wages grow moderately faster than inflation.

Boru

I'm no economist, therefore I don't know squat about these sorts of things. But at the same time, I've never been one to accept 'because I know and you don't' as an answer. I can certainly think of lots of examples where increased production results in lower costs and therefore lower prices. But most of those examples are in the areas of production of hard goods. But when it comes to things like services, finding a builder to build your new deck for example, increase demand generally leads to higher prices. Why should I take you shitty deck job for $5k when I charge Mr Gotbucks $8k for the same work? Also in production areas like farming, seems like increased demand only leads to higher prices. Farmer Jed plants 200 acres of corn. When suppliers can get all the corn they want and more, prices are going to drop. When there just ain't enough corn to go around, prices go up.

We as a country don't produce nearly as many hard goods as we used to and we farm less than we used to as more and more farmers realize there's better money in using the land to plant million dollar McMansions than there is in planting $0.50 melons.

So again, as someone who doesn't like to take 'because I said so' as an answer, can you explain why increased demand will lead to lower prices overall? Not really doubting you. It just seems to defy logic and I genuinely want to understand it.
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#15
RE: American workers' wages stagnant, even in a great economy: why?
Greed, it's the 'Murican way.
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#16
RE: American workers' wages stagnant, even in a great economy: why?
But the Beta Fail plan would solve this 

Stop the evil brown people "from taking our jobs" 

Stop those commie college students from pursuing things their interested in and hurl them into capitalist grit mills 

It ignores actual economics but it gives him a Conservative vengeance boner
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.

Inuit Proverb

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#17
RE: American workers' wages stagnant, even in a great economy: why?
(August 12, 2018 at 5:42 pm)johan Wrote:
(August 12, 2018 at 2:12 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Yeah, that's kind of silly.  When wages increase, people have more disposable income, buy more stuff, creating a greater demand for services and manufactured goods, which increases production which lowers prices.  Economies of scale work best when wages grow moderately faster than inflation.

Boru

I'm no economist, therefore I don't know squat about these sorts of things. But at the same time, I've never been one to accept 'because I know and you don't' as an answer. I can certainly think of lots of examples where increased production results in lower costs and therefore lower prices. But most of those examples are in the areas of production of hard goods. But when it comes to things like services, finding a builder to build your new deck for example, increase demand generally leads to higher prices. Why should I take you shitty deck job for $5k when I charge Mr Gotbucks $8k for the same work? Also in production areas like farming, seems like increased demand only leads to higher prices. Farmer Jed plants 200 acres of corn. When suppliers can get all the corn they want and more, prices are going to drop. When there just ain't enough corn to go around, prices go up.

We as a country don't produce nearly as many hard goods as we used to and we farm less than we used to as more and more farmers realize there's better money in using the land to plant million dollar McMansions than there is in planting $0.50 melons.

So again, as someone who doesn't like to take 'because I said so' as an answer, can you explain why increased demand will lead to lower prices overall? Not really doubting you. It just seems to defy logic and I genuinely want to understand it.

Fair points all.  Suppose widgets are popular in your area.  You've been buying two widgets per year forever, so Widgets R Us makes enough to keep up with demand.  Your wages go up and you decide to increase your purchases to four per year.  Companies (both manufacturing and service) tend  to project what they'll need do to keep pace with demand.  If the increase in demand slackens just slightly, your widget supplier is going to have to drop prices to make the product more attractive and to keep the warehouses from over-flowing with unsold widgets.

Granted, this isn't a hard and fast rule - there are always exceptions and variables.  But to address your deck-building example, most builders aren't going to permanently ignore a 5k job for an 8k one - rather than lose my business altogether, you're likely to prioritize Mr. Gotbucks' project, and get to mine a little later (this is a much better solution than having my job go to one of your competitors).

Historically, however, it has almost always been the case that wages rising faster than inflation tends to decrease prices.  When the reverse happens (prices rising faster than wages), inflation tends to feed on itself - this is happening in Turkey and Venezuela right now, happened in Zimbabwe recently, and famously happened in Germany after WWI (to forestall an inevitable objection, yes, there are other factors that contribute to inflation).

Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
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#18
RE: American workers' wages stagnant, even in a great economy: why?
(August 12, 2018 at 1:53 pm)Aegon Wrote: American Workers Just Got a Pay Cut in Economy Trump Calls Great

Quote:President Donald Trump has presided over an accelerating economy and the lowest unemployment in years, but American workers still aren’t seeing it in their wallets.

U.S. average hourly earnings adjusted for inflation fell 0.2 percent in July from a year earlier, data released on Friday showed, notching the lowest reading since 2012. While inflation isn’t high in historical terms, after years of being too low following the 2007-2009 recession, its recent gains are taking a bigger bite out of U.S. paychecks.

“Inflation has been climbing and wage growth, meanwhile, has been flat as a pancake,” said Laura Rosner, senior economist at MacroPolicy Perspectives LLC in New York. “In a very tight labor market you would expect that workers would negotiate their wages to at least keep up with the cost of living, and the picture tells you that they’re not.”

U.S. unemployment at 3.9 percent in July was near a 50-year low and a core measure of inflation that excludes food and energy prices has pushed to 2.4 percent, the highest reading in almost a decade. But wages are just not keeping up and part of the reason is probably a lack of bargaining power on the part of U.S. workers.

Ryan Sweet, an economist at Moody’s Analytics Inc. in West Chester, Pennsylvania, said given that inflation has been low in recent years, “the sense of urgency” hasn’t been there to negotiate for higher wages. In the post-recession labor market, workers have forgotten how to bargain.

“As the labor market came back, workers were just happy to have survived,” Sweet said. “They value their job security more than asking for a higher wage.”

What will determine real wages in the coming months is not inflation as much as what happen to wages, he said. “I do anticipate nominal wage growth picking up which should help drive up real wage gains over the next few months.”

As I've said countless times, the average worker suffers under the American economic model. Things have to change on a fundamental level. We know that wages have failed to keep up with inflation, and that the top 10 percent of income earners have seen magnificent gains while the rest of us have seen, statistically speaking, nothing. It seems Republicans (and moderate Democrats) have conditioned workers to be content with this reality. This has been an issue for over 30 years. Through Clinton and Obama too.

I align with the political philosophy of social democracy. It's time to take note from its success in the Nordic countries. The average American deserves more. Congress (Dems and Repubs alike) almost unanimously passed the disgusting and highly unnecessary $700 billion to our military complex while we bicker about whether or not we can afford a universal healthcare system. Repulsive.

Other than 'copy the Nordic model" what is your solution? If the Nordic model were so easy to copy (keep in mind, their model involves ultra strict immigration control, Norway is not part of the EU, and has had some of the tightest immigration in Europe) then everyone would do it.

(August 12, 2018 at 1:56 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Because it's an economy to benefit the rich, not the rest of the people.

Aren't you supposed to be a wealthy doctor?
[Image: dcep7c.jpg]
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#19
RE: American workers' wages stagnant, even in a great economy: why?
Quote:Other than 'copy the Nordic model" what is your solution? If the Nordic model were so easy to copy (keep in mind, their model involves ultra strict immigration control, Norway is not part of the EU, and has had some of the tightest immigration in Europe) then everyone would do it
Well we can start with this current systems not working 

Quote:Aren't you supposed to be a wealthy doctor?
Which is likely why Val knows
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.

Inuit Proverb

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#20
RE: American workers' wages stagnant, even in a great economy: why?
(August 12, 2018 at 8:00 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote:
(August 12, 2018 at 1:53 pm)Aegon Wrote: American Workers Just Got a Pay Cut in Economy Trump Calls Great


As I've said countless times, the average worker suffers under the American economic model. Things have to change on a fundamental level. We know that wages have failed to keep up with inflation, and that the top 10 percent of income earners have seen magnificent gains while the rest of us have seen, statistically speaking, nothing. It seems Republicans (and moderate Democrats) have conditioned workers to be content with this reality. This has been an issue for over 30 years. Through Clinton and Obama too.

I align with the political philosophy of social democracy. It's time to take note from its success in the Nordic countries. The average American deserves more. Congress (Dems and Repubs alike) almost unanimously passed the disgusting and highly unnecessary $700 billion to our military complex while we bicker about whether or not we can afford a universal healthcare system. Repulsive.

Other than 'copy the Nordic model" what is your solution? If the Nordic model were so easy to copy (keep in mind, their model involves ultra strict immigration control, Norway is not part of the EU, and has had some of the tightest immigration in Europe) then everyone would do it

You think the thing stopping the US from adopting a form of the Nordic model is that it's hard to Do? As if every conservative and moderate Dem is actively looking to do things differently? The military budget says otherwise
[Image: nL4L1haz_Qo04rZMFtdpyd1OZgZf9NSnR9-7hAWT...dc2a24480e]
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