3 simple points to end the discussion with any atheist

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Atlas, you make your people look like idiots with your inane posts. Is that your real mission here?

[WinterHold]

1-Ask about the design of the universe: this question is very embarrassing to atheists, because the universe is full of signs. From the human body to mathematics, to the value of PI, the universe seems like a pattern designed by the same entity.

Mathematics and logic is a way of describing the universe. If humans did not exist then neither would they. You mention PI, but there is no such thing as a perfect circle or sphere in nature. Therefore also no PI

As for the design that can be explained away. Everything in the universe works to reach equilibrium. Matter coalesce in gravity wells to form planets. Mountains erode away and flatten out. Chemical reactions use gibb's free energy etc. The more efficiently these processes can do this the more effectively the thermodynamic gradient can be minimised. This results in something that looks like it was designed but it just is more efficient to encode and improve upon something than continually re-inventing the wheel.

So you may have proto-cells form many times in a primordial soup but the one that manages to replicate itself will out compete those that cannot because there is an energy gradient that it can feed off. This then leads to Darwinian evolution.

Where do these energy gradients come from?

Quantum irregularities at the beginning of the Big Bang turned into thermodynamic gradients through the expansion of the universe.

I stressed on two lines from your argument; two things:

1-Maybe we can't see a perfect sphere because our tools are limited, and we will never ever achieve the observation of a perfect entity. Our sight (even via using the most advanced tools in the world) stops at a certain limit; our sight itself gets shattered and quantum mechanics proved it: particles would hit two spots at the same time in the famous experiment that gave birth to quantum mechanics as a field. Is that the truth, or the capturing of our inferiority and limited tools?

2-Why does everything has to "work" to reach something?
   Why weren't we a void that never came to be? Why did the thermodynamic gradients exist? what gave them the ability to, and why does anything has to be? in other words: what is responsible for the act of "being"?

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1-Ask about the design of the universe: this question is very embarrassing to atheists, because the universe is full of signs. From the human body to mathematics, to the value of PI, the universe seems like a pattern designed by the same entity.

2-Open up the topic of time: human life is timed. Literally there is a cosmic clock, and the sun gives the time for earth. Why do the odds stack up in this life?

3-Why do we have consciousness?

1- Please demonstrate that it is designed and not only seems so. Because it seems to me your argument is an argument from ignorance.

1-Pattern = a design of a mechanism. Orbits of planets are an example

2- The sun shines, therefore life = improbable, therefore god?  Please try harder. Another argument from ignorance.

No; it's the opposing side that claims that just because we can't see God = No God.

3- We.dont.know.           Do you?

So, what else do you have, aside from ignorance i mean? We all are ignorant, but you seem to be able to draw some special knowledge from your ignorance. Why? Is that maybe related to an irrational belief of yours that needs to be shored up?

A different view held by billions of people is not ignorance: but perhaps "innate capacity"?

[Angrboda]

A different view held by billions of people is not ignorance: but perhaps "innate capacity"?

Or it's ignorance. The fact that it's held by billions of people means nothing. This is simply more stupid reasoning on your part.

[Deesse23]

1- Please demonstrate that it is designed and not only seems so. Because it seems to me your argument is an argument from ignorance.

1-Pattern = a design of a mechanism. Orbits of planets are an example

Patterns do not equal design. Patterns arent even evidence for design. The human brain even recognizes patterns where there arent any patterns.
Please provide evidence for your stupid assertion.

2- The sun shines, therefore life = improbable, therefore god?  Please try harder. Another argument from ignorance.

No; it's the opposing side that claims that just because we can't see God = No God.

Please stop these silly arguments. You keep embarassing yourself. Please also stop deflecting. We arent talking about anything else but your assertions. You claim there is a god, others reject that claim. Even if someone would claim that there is no god, we are still talking about your claim, nothing else. What is your specific argument?
Please read your own assertion above. This is what i have adressed and nothing else.  "The sun shines, therefore life = improbable, therefore god?" Is this your position? If so, then its incredibly ignorant, unless you present evidence for it. Do you have some?

3- We.dont.know.           Do you?

So, what else do you have, aside from ignorance i mean? We all are ignorant, but you seem to be able to draw some special knowledge from your ignorance. Why? Is that maybe related to an irrational belief of yours that needs to be shored up?

A different view held by billions of people is not ignorance: but perhaps "innate capacity"?

No it isnt, although you wish (like you wish so many silly things to be true it seems). The number of people believing does not tell us anything about the truth value of this belief.

People believed (and still do) the earth is flat.
People believed fire and lightning to be supernatural.
People believed that its ok to own other human beings as property.
People even believe it wont rain tomorrow!

Where do you get these stupid ideas from? Stop embarassing yourself and all other Muslims who arent nearly as ignorant as you are, their unreasonable religious belief notwithstanding. Please educate yourself. Seriously. You are wasting your entire lifespan with being uneducated and engaging in wishful thinking. Its not your fault being born stupid, but if you die being stupid.

[WinterHold]

1-Ask about the design of the universe: this question is very embarrassing to atheists, because the universe is full of signs. From the human body to mathematics, to the value of PI, the universe seems like a pattern designed by the same entity.

2-Open up the topic of time: human life is timed. Literally there is a cosmic clock, and the sun gives the time for earth. Why do the odds stack up in this life?

3-Why do we have consciousness?

"JANE STOP THIS CRAZY THING!"

Atlass, -please, this is not a new or original argument nor is it solely made by Muslims.

No, there is no design in all this. We are not the products of a cosmic factory owner. We are the product of mere nature and processes.

But if you really want to go there, I will say the same thing I do when Christians use the design argument.

Cockroaches and bacteria are also living things. They also can carry very deadly diseases that can kill humans. They also outnumber humans and have been around longer than humans. Still want to claim "design"?

Humans share the same eating breathing tube and we can choke on our food and die. Whales and dolphins do not have that problem. And as far as whales, some species of whales still have residual bones left over from when they had legs. Whales started out in water, went to land for a while, then back to water.

A Giraffe has a nerve that starts at one ear, goes all the way down their neck, then all the way back up to the other ear. Seems a waste knowing the shortest distance between two points is a straight line.

And are birth defects like Downs Syndrome by "design" too?

Life was not a product of a sky wizard, anymore than lightening is a product of Thor.

Atlass, what you are needlessly mentally doing to yourself trying to defend old mythology is you are confusing "pretty" in life as all there is to life.

I also see amazing things in life too. But there are also nasty things in life too. The only difference between the theist and the atheist is that we don't assign the good or bad in life to old mythology and fictional beings.

Creation mythology is far older than Islam, Christianity and Jewish traditions.

I would say that the birth defects are only to show a "what if" scenario; how life would be a living hell if God wanted so.

I was born with multiple sclerosis, but I remember the times I was healthy quite good: they were yesterday. If I didn't get sick, I wouldn't had known that God is capable of everything: he is capable of giving one health, and giving one sickness.

In his nature the example is implicitly there: the day/ night cycles are one of the examples.

Life would not fit together without and intelligent design that gave precedence to events.

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1-Ask about the design of the universe: this question is very embarrassing to atheists, because the universe is full of signs. From the human body to mathematics, to the value of PI, the universe seems like a pattern designed by the same entity.

...

3-Why do we have consciousness?

1.  As an atheist, I am not embarrassed to discuss the "design" of the universe.  You are assuming God did it, which means you think the consciousness of a God must be behind apparent design.  But science already understands why this is not the case.  The apparent design of the universe was created by various foryms of non-intelligent, material self-organization: stellar evolution, chemistry, abiogenesis, biological evolution, and so on.  We haven't nailed down all the details, but the details we do understand support strictly materialistic explanations for apparent design.

The embarrassment is in "claiming the very huge claim" that things came to be because "they just came to be".
I'm a programmer. Nobody will ever convince me that anything starts from the void of nothingness, such claim is utterly ignorant for me: even to cavemen:there's no smoke without fire.
God is your base-case; the first and the last point for the self-invoking function: i.e us.

3.  Again, you are likely defining consciousness as some separate substance rather than as something which can be explained materially.  However, scientists already know that the mind is brain-dependent.  Consciousness is awareness filtered through a self-concept, and the self-concept is a symbolic construct.  The body, and specifically the brain, is what is conscious -- not some free-floating, spiritual self.  Assuming some spirit behind consciousness is reifying the self-concept.

The reason why you think both of these points are show-stoppers for atheists is because you define both "design" and "consciousness" differently than we do.  To you, the God-concept is embedded in your assumptions about both.  Atheists don't share your assumptions.

No, consciousness is triggered by the brain, and if its origin in the brain got damaged; we "lose consciousness"; hence the name. Even a kid knows how to target the human "consciousness" from watching Tom and Jerry: when Jerry hits Tom with the broom.
The question is why the brain rigged like this; the member "Mathilda" said that we evolved to be conscious due to the need of hunting; and her opinion seemed decent -but not totally-.
It's all electricity in the head. But what made that electricity behave that way? or rather "whom"???

[Alan V]

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1.  As an atheist, I am not embarrassed to discuss the "design" of the universe.  You are assuming God did it, which means you think the consciousness of a God must be behind apparent design.  But science already understands why this is not the case.  The apparent design of the universe was created by various foryms of non-intelligent, material self-organization: stellar evolution, chemistry, abiogenesis, biological evolution, and so on.  We haven't nailed down all the details, but the details we do understand support strictly materialistic explanations for apparent design.

The embarrassment is in "claiming the very huge claim" that things came to be because "they just came to be".
I'm a programmer. Nobody will ever convince me that anything starts from the void of nothingness, such claim is utterly ignorant for me: even to cavemen:there's no smoke without fire.
God is your base-case; the first and the last point for the self-invoking function: i.e us.

Get back to us when you have actually caught up on brain science, physics, and cosmology.  Until you do, you will no doubt continue to argue against strawmen.

[Brian37]

A different view held by billions of people is not ignorance: but perhaps "innate capacity"?

Or it's ignorance.  The fact that it's held by billions of people means nothing.  This is simply more stupid reasoning on your part.

Yep, I agree Jor.

It isn't just him, and like most Christians and Jews and Hindus and Buddhists ect ect ect ect, most humans get sold a religion at birth prior to formulating adult critical thinking skills. That is the part he and billions don't get. 

Humans fail to think about all the superstitions and deities and mythology they don't buy themselves, and as such wont apply that reasoning to their own claims.

They don't understand it is simply an artificial club that creates a real social structure. They don't consider that our species ability to create social order is evolutionary, not magically handed down to us. They do not want to consider that our morality, our behaviors, good or bad, are in our evolution, not in old writings or holy people.

If billions of people believed Yoda was real it would not make Yoda real.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

A different view held by billions of people is not ignorance: but perhaps "innate capacity"?

Argument from popularity fallacy. Do try harder.

[The Grand Nudger]

@What made the electricity act that way (referring to consciousness)

An incredible sifting device called "life and death".

[brewer]

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