Intercessory prayer is pointless

[pgrimes15]

Aaahhhh!!! Now I've embarrassed myself by laughing out loud on the train ! Thanks a lot ! (he said passive aggressively).

[Nay_Sayer]

Easy, My book says he is.

That would be this book?

Verily the gospel delivered on high. The true word of god.

[Drich]

Well I'm glad that's worked out for you.
You can give credit to your god, however, I'm more inclined to attribute all that you have to your own hard work and not as a result of anything an unseeable friend could offer.

Without a doubt I work hoard, but you also see the volume of time I spend in places like this researching and answering questions.. 4 to 6 hours aday right out of the middle of the work day.. for the last 10+ years. yet this business keeps on keeping on. Not to mention how I got started with money from a man i never met before.. 25,000 loan on a complete stranger who's wife (at the time) was a 200 dollar a day heroin addict.

That's just me. All throughout my life, even as a child, I never felt that god was a presence in my life. I would ask questions regarding his reality or ask to see some physical presence and was told that I just have to have faith and believe.

because the person you asked did not know how to access God. What did Jesus say when doubting thomas needed proof? He said blessed are those who can just believe, but for those who doubted like thomas Jesus provided everything he needed to establish and maintain faith. The same is true for me and so Goes the same for millions of others who know to ask for the Holy Spirit.
You learn to ask for the Holy SPirit on his terms and God... Shows up. We don't need priests prophets or any go betweens. The HolySpirit/God deals with us one on one. This is not a me thing, meaning I am no one special and look at what God has done. I simply learn to seek his on his terms and not my own.

I grew out of the imaginary friend stage when I was six.

I never had one.

But even into adulthood I was still willing to give god a chance. Different churches all led me back to the same conclusion: there is no true evidence that god exists. Personal stories and experiences are not proof. Not to me and not to countless others who feel the same way.

the church is a tool to supposed to set you up with a relationship. unfortuniatly the church has become a club to exclude others and sell a specific brand of christianity.

I do not represent a specific brand. I teach/tell people find one that suits you and seek a personal relationship with God per his promises to have one with you if you can meet him on his terms. from there then pick a church, pick a denomination.

It is an ask seek knock thing. I know, I know all of you think you have done this.. what you haven't done is the knock part. to knock means to keep asking and seeking till God shows up. if God does not show up you didn't knock as luke 11 prescribes.. The difference? is not what you presuppose it has nothing to do with imagination. to knock is to remain faithful in ask and seeking while God sends the trials of life to wipe away any corrupt version of god you might have in you. it will have you re-examine the old grandfather image while you a good person is having to deal with a undeserved hardship.. it has you cry out past the God who you thinks trades good deeds for granted prayers/wishes. to know makes you push past your own ideas of who and what God is and truly seek what is out there... the God of the bible. and when you follow this idea so far out well beyond getting the help you need from others from friend from family, and help comes.. not luck but organised help that systematically takes away your hardship you will know or see the hand of God in your life... The harder the heart, however the harder the trial will have to be. meaning you must be willing to do whatever it takes. How badly do you want proof? Life and hardship is coming anyway, why not turn into the pain and use it to help you find what you are looking for?

[Drich]

Oops : "For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."

"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

Two things.. What did Jesus say he came here to do (the part of the quote you left out) and What did Jesus say on the cross just before he died?

I came here to finish or full fill the law/was the part you left out and (depends on translation) It is finished.. or it has been fulfilled. was his lasts words on the cross.

Now does this take the whole law away from everyone? no it still applies to the same people it always applied to.. OT Jews. Or people seeking righteousness through the law (moral people/pop morality douche bags who thik they can be good 'enough'.) as the OT Jews sought which means everyone! but those who seek atonement/as faith in Christ...

Otherwise what was the point of Christ if he were to come here die just to continue the old covenant? If that were the case, then that means the gentiles are screwed as they have no 'in to being born into the chosen' and the jews would have to live as they always have always lived. (which jews today don't even live like ot jews. so everyone is screwed.)

That or you are missing something in your exegesis of this passage.
Such as:

Heaven (LOL) and Earth are still here, and everything is NOT "accomplished", therefore EVERYTHING in the "law" is still required.
As usual Christians cherry-pick the verses they want to cherry-pick.

read it again sport it says: "not one jot shall change till it is finished or full filled." what did Jesus say his mission here was? (the part you cut out of your quotation of this passage) It says "I did not come here to destroy the law" but to what?!?!? "but to Full fill the law"

so again... what did he do on the cross ?? He full filled the law so "one jot could be changed." How do we know this? IT WAS HIS FINAL WORDS!!!

What jot? Ask yourself where does fulfillment of the explained? Romans 10 goes well into detail explain how and what it means the law was full filled but to sum it up in a sentence romans 10:4 says it all:
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

But here's the thing you and guys who quote this passage wishing we were all still OT jews don't get... Read verse 4 again.. The law end... FOR those who BELIEVE do you understand? the law remains and for those who do not believe (you and people like you) IT IS YOU WHOM THE LAW REMAINS TILL HEAVEN AND EARTH DISAPPEAR. So you may be judged by it.. However For those who believe.. it is our faith in Christ that saves us. (again all explain in great detail in Romans 10)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...ersion=ERV

PAUL himself said Christians were STILL under the (old) law.
1 Corinthians 14:34  "Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says."

this is a lie. nowhere in that passage does it say we are under the old law. PAul is setting rules for the worship service, and lot of new things because of how the Spirit changes the dynamic of worship.. however for the women it is as it always was... that is all this passage is saying. the woman's role in worship is the same as it was under the law. men roles changed because so many were blathering about in tongues and Paul is trying to regulate guys who have this gift from morons pretending. he says in the chapter several time he wants worship to be orderly, we can do tongues if...

Jesus also told the young man in Matthew, he had to "keep (all) the commandments",

because the young man asked him a completely different question you dishonest pig.

17 As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. “Good teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

He asked 'what HE MUST DO' it is the same thing YOU MUST DO being a non christian.. You have to live perfectly by the law... He supposedly did, However this was not enough for the boy he wanted to be perfect. Christ said sell everything and follow him.. why? because if he had he would have followed as a disciple who all later found out that through atonement we do become perfect before God. apart from the law. He wanted to be perfect... no way through the law to be perfect, but through faith and atonement perfection is given/not earned lest no man should boast.

(not just 2). Sounds like your Jebus can't make up his mind, (or perhaps the people who made up the story of Jebus couldn't keep their story straight).

My quote comes from the disciples asking which laws were the most important and Christ wraps up all law ito just two the christian must follow.

For honest open minded people they would see, Two different question two different answers.. for the closed minded douche who thinks he knows more about the bible than he really does, everyone is wrong except him, because he tried to contact god and got nothing in return.. meaning if there was a God surly he would meet him 1/2 way... so that must make you a bible expert, because you read a few passages and have a few opinions..

Drich, you really need to take Bible 101. You are incompetent to say anything about the Bible.
You can't even write a sentence in correct English. Can't Jebus send someone who can spell ?
* asked
* boiled
* ability

NT 101 the disciples/apostles/ Father's of the church... were all common laborers/fishermen and most of them could not read or write. Most of them used scribes. Paul who could, but rarly wrote his own letters. Moses had a speech impediment, Jesus Himself came as a below status commoner.. which is one of the reason why the upper echelon never accepted him.

or better put:
26 Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him. 30 It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31 Therefore, as it is written: “Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord.”

God uses foolish people like me so when you stop and actually look at what is being said you know the origins of this or any profound message is not of the messenger but of the one who sent the messenger.

the message here is not mine it is the lords. which is why it leaves your pitiful but correctly spelled observations emasculated and appearing to be lacking in the basic knowledge of the bible you where in fact lording over me.

because truly what is ore pittful.. someone on point and correct in everything he says, but misspelled *3 words.. or someone who has great spelling and grammar but has a very little understanding of the basic subject matter?

Who is the person you entrust to drive your family? Some douche fresh out of class who knows the rules of the road, or the professional driver who knows how to drive any vehicle at any speed or road condition??

[Dr H]

That would be this book?

Verily the gospel delivered on high. The true word of god.

OK, I am convinced.  I have been hungry, and you have fed me.  
Marinara has been shed for my sins.
I am born again in the sauce!
Take my money and lead me to the promised land!  

[Drich]

So, the reason most Christians are praying wrong is because they don't speak ancient Greek, and Almighty God isn't a good enough communicator to get the idea across?

you do not have to know ancient greek to know how to use a lexicon and or concordance... That is the problem with you white english privileged people.. most of you never grew up in a bilingual house hold, but made to take a foreign language and still yet do not understand the term 'lost in translation.'

no language translates word for word, syntax is different grammar is different, everything you think you know about written or verbal communication is wrong, when going to a different language. Growing up most of my friends thought it was crazy the way yoda spoke. that is a simple example of using a different syntax construct. I say that to say the bible... wait for it... Was not originally written in english! what's more the dialect it was written is is dead, so even if you spoke the language it was written in it would be like speaking to someone who only speaks a very primitive form of english. meaning words are not used the same, and they will and can take on different social references. hence the need for a lexicon and concordance. a concordance is a literal word for word translation of the whole bible. then the lexicon work as a dictionary and also a historical text that gives proper social text in how and when a word was used.

Now that said if a reasonably honest person who want to find God came across the passage that said in prayer and supplication go to God.. the question should cause a pause, for even if you know what supplication means one would think most prayer is asking for things... So that is when you break out the lexicon and concordance as I did to see what does not translate properly. so we look up prayer and it samples or points to the formal prayer of Christ then we look up petition, or supplication and it means to ask for anything else.. meaning anything not in the lord's prayer is potentially a suplictory 'prayer.' or a petition to God.

I'm going to be honest: I don't care enough about this topic to learn ancient Greek well enough to see if I agree with your assessment on this.

but you do have enough interest to argue actual bonafide reference source like a moron arguing with a merriam webster dictionary to the meaning of a word you clearly do not understand!

That is what i do not understand about you guys.. you bitches always scream for proof proof proof. and you have actual proof on the definition of a word and you turn a blind eye to it as if it were a matter of opinion or preference. I posted the reference material for you all you had to do is read, and it tells you what I have already said. You morons need to understand you are not arguing me, I simply compile information. you are ignoring the 'proof' you pretend you want so you can keep the idea of God as far away from you as possible.

The vast majority of Christians do ask God for stuff when they pray, and that's what my thread is addressing. I don't really care if 90% of Christians are "correct" or not.

Moron, again... it is ok to ask God for stuff!!! Paul said go to God in PRAYER AND PETITION.. However if all you do is ask for crap (got to him in petition) when will you have you ever prayed? If you never pray, are you doing what we have been instructed to do? if not, then why oh why in the world would you think God would be willing to answer your petitions if you have never prayed? Do you now understand the point that I made back in my first post? If you only petition and to God never pray why would he consider your requests? We must first be willing to follow him.. before he is willing to give to us.

Because If you never prayed, but he does answer, would you then be inclined to ever learn to pray? -or- If God never answers your supplitory prayers and you thought you were praying wouldn't you then see what is up and ask someone why God is never there fore you... So then again it only benefits you to learn the difference between prayer and supplication so you learn to do both... You want God to do abc... God demands you first ask for xyz... Again learn to ask for xyz and there is nothing God won't grant in the abc...

So, maybe your claim about me just not knowing the right language is true, and maybe it's not. Sadly, it being true hinges on Almighty God letting this One True translation die along with the ancient Greek speakers, only to be picked up by a rare handful of scholars who know the True meaning.

here's the thing sport.. YOU don't represent the whole of Church... I do. Why? because I learned to pray long long time ago and God showed up as promised, just like for the millions of other in one form or fashion God showed up for them as well We are not stupid we are not delusional but we also can not ignore God when He shows up as well...

what you represent if the failure of christianity, a failure of a shadow of a medieval religion, and the what and why people leave the church.. they leave because when they pray and ask for cars houses and girl friends they don't get crap. when they ask for grandma to get better they don't get crap. when they go to trade good deeds for granted wishes they don't get crap... because they never once, (like you) never learn to pray..


If you want to learn i can explain it again. 2 minutes a day and God will turn your little world upside down.

[Abaddon_ire]

What did Jesus say on the cross just before he died?

Luke 23:46 Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.”[e] When he had said this, he breathed his last.

John 19:30 When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “It is finished.” With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

Matthew 27:46-50
46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

47 Some of them that stood there, when they heard that, said, This man calleth for Elias.

48 And straightway one of them ran, and took a spunge, and filled it with vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink.

49 The rest said, Let be, let us see whether Elias will come to save him.

50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

Mark 15:33-37
33 At noon, darkness came over the whole land until three in the afternoon. 34 And at three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).[b]

35 When some of those standing near heard this, they said, “Listen, he’s calling Elijah.”

36 Someone ran, filled a sponge with wine vinegar, put it on a staff, and offered it to Jesus to drink. “Now leave him alone. Let’s see if Elijah comes to take him down,” he said.

37 With a loud cry, Jesus breathed his last.

You were saying?

[RobbyPants]

Moron, again... it is ok to ask God for stuff!!! Paul said go to God in PRAYER AND PETITION.. However if all you do is ask for crap (got to him in petition)  when will you have you ever prayed? If you never pray, are you doing what we have been instructed to do? if not, then why oh why in the world would you think God would be willing to answer your petitions if you have never prayed? Do you now understand the point that I made back in my first post? If you only petition and to God never pray why would he consider your requests? We must first be willing to follow him.. before he is willing to give to us.

So... you go from saying that there are only two types of prayer (neither of which is Christians asking for things) to saying that it's okay to do sometimes, so long as they don't always do it... Which was never part of my OP in the first place.

So, your big complaint about the thrust of this thread is that you don't actually have a problem with the main premise, but I presumably hurt your feelings. And here you are repeatedly calling me a moron. I've wasted entirely too much time talking to you when you're not even participating in good faith. Never again. On the ignore list you go, asshole.

[Drich]

What did Jesus say on the cross just before he died?

Luke 23:46 Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.”[e] When he had said this, he breathed his last.

John 19:30 When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “It is finished.” With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

Matthew 27:46-50
46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

47 Some of them that stood there, when they heard that, said, This man calleth for Elias.

48 And straightway one of them ran, and took a spunge, and filled it with vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink.

49 The rest said, Let be, let us see whether Elias will come to save him.

50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

Mark 15:33-37
33 At noon, darkness came over the whole land until three in the afternoon. 34 And at three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).

35 When some of those standing near heard this, they said, “Listen, he’s calling Elijah.”

36 Someone ran, filled a sponge with wine vinegar, put it on a staff, and offered it to Jesus to drink. “Now leave him alone. Let’s see if Elijah comes to take him down,” he said.

37 With a loud cry, Jesus breathed his last.

You were saying?

Glob...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en_rIvUDk8o

I know your argument as a thing in the 1990s I did know people were still arguing a contradiction here... for anyone with any interest in honesty or truth this supposed paradox can simply be solved by saying each writer represented a piece of Christ final words.

---

Moron, again... it is ok to ask God for stuff!!! Paul said go to God in PRAYER [b]AND PETITION.. However if all you do is ask for crap (got to him in petition)  when will you have you ever prayed? If you never pray, are you doing what we have been instructed to do? if not, then why oh why in the world would you think God would be willing to answer your petitions if you have never prayed? Do you now understand the point that I made back in my first post? If you only petition and to God never pray why would he consider your requests? We must first be willing to follow him.. before he is willing to give to us.

So... you go from saying that there are only two types of prayer (neither of which is Christians asking for things)

no. I'm saying in the formal Christ Christ taught prayer we ask for our daily needs. we ask that God's will be set and the goal for our life, we ask for forgivness of our sin if andonly if we can forgive those who sinned against us.

Then in petition.. we can ask for anything we want.

to saying that it's okay to do sometimes, so long as they don't always do it... Which was never part of my OP in the first place.

how are you even apart of this conversation and have so little understanding of what we have been talking about???
I'm saying if you only petition God and never pray because you do not know the difference God... has NO reason to answer your petition.

Remember prayer changes your will to be that of God.. Petition is asking God to change his will to favor you. If you can't first give your will to God why would he entrust the power and authority his will has to you? (if you can't be bother to do as you are told why would God reward you?)

So, your big complaint about the thrust of this thread is that you don't actually have a problem with the main premise, but I presumably hurt your feelings. And here you are repeatedly calling me a moron. I've wasted entirely too much time talking to you when you're not even participating in good faith. Never again. On the ignore list you go, asshole.

I have rightfully called you a moron because it shows in your summary that as well spelled as everything you write is... you have no clue as to the nature of this conversation.

Prayer=change your will

Petition= change God's will.

We are commanded to pray first and then petition. because if we can learn to pray then our petitions will be that of the will of God for us and he will freely give.

[Nay_Sayer]

Verily the gospel delivered on high. The true word of god.

OK, I am convinced.  I have been hungry, and you have fed me.  
Marinara has been shed for my sins.
I am born again in the sauce!
Take my money and lead me to the promised land!  

Praise be his name. Welcome brother. May his warm noodly appendages never leave you.

Your heart is now full.  RAmen