Abortion: 10 years as an atheist and I still don't get it

[arewethereyet]

@Agnostico
Are you going to answer my question? Have you ever been pregnant?

You seem to think you are some sort of authority on pregnancy and when it is detected...

Or are you playing the games of the overly-impressed with themselves?

[The Grand Nudger]

An immoral act is one that is done consciously and causes harm or affects well being.

Not always.  Radiation treatments and chemotherapy are done consciously and cause harm and affect well-being.  In fact, they cause so much harm that a certain percentage of patients give up on the treatment and let the cancer take its course. Is using these methods to treat cancer patients an immoral act?

Things aren't as black and white as you seem to think.

Boru

They may be black and white - the statement adequately describes an act with moral import.  As in, any time we're doing harm it's worth looking into, though it doesn't adequately describe (or confine) an immoral act as a product of moral summary.

In the case of cancer treatment (or any treatment), it becomes immoral to treat a condition at whatever point the treatment is worse than the condition itself - not entirely unlike banning abortion.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Not always.  Radiation treatments and chemotherapy are done consciously and cause harm and affect well-being.  In fact, they cause so much harm that a certain percentage of patients give up on the treatment and let the cancer take its course. Is using these methods to treat cancer patients an immoral act?

Things aren't as black and white as you seem to think.

Boru

They may be black and white - the statement adequately describes an act with moral import.  As in, any time we're doing harm it's worth looking into, though it doesn't adequately describe (or confine)  an immoral act as a product of moral summary.

In the case of cancer treatment (or any treatment), it becomes immoral to treat a condition at whatever point the treatment is worse than the condition itself - not entirely unlike banning abortion.

I’m not sure you can make the case that vomiting and hair loss are worse than death.

Boru

[The Grand Nudger]

Not in any objective sense, no..but as a hypothetical it's possible for a treatment to be worse than a condition.

The point is that it's not for black and white thinking that a moral assessment would fail -if- we stopped at the presence of a bad-making property and called it a day. Even if things were black and white, further equally black and white things would have to be applied before we state that something is immoral, or an immoral act. That's a summary with more than one referent fact.

[Agnostico]

Not always.  Radiation treatments and chemotherapy are done consciously and cause harm and affect well-being.  In fact, they cause so much harm that a certain percentage of patients give up on the treatment and let the cancer take its course. Is using these methods to treat cancer patients an immoral act?

Things aren't as black and white as you seem to think.

Boru

Fair point. 
In trying to think of a counter claim to my own argument I thought the best way would be to find something with the definition i used for an immoral act

Is deliberately starting a bushfire an immoral act? It's causing harm to plant and creatures
But if it's controlled back burning done to better manage real fires then it's not immoral
Im sure there would be more examples along those lines

But the main strength of that moral argument is the pain. It's immoral to inflict pain on humans weather they are old, young or unborn. Pain is pain

Even if u disagree u have to admit its a sound moral argument. 

Talk to me also about my social argument about safe sex and responsibility. 
Ultimately that is what is causing so many unwanted pregnancies these days and STDs so more thought needs to be put into fixing the cause as well i think

We need Greta Thunberg to scare the world into using condoms... LoL... How dare you

[The Grand Nudger]

More an axiom than an argument, as you've put it.

[arewethereyet]

Not always.  Radiation treatments and chemotherapy are done consciously and cause harm and affect well-being.  In fact, they cause so much harm that a certain percentage of patients give up on the treatment and let the cancer take its course. Is using these methods to treat cancer patients an immoral act?

Things aren't as black and white as you seem to think.

Boru

Fair point. 
In trying to think of a counter claim to my own argument I thought the best way would be to find something with the definition i used for an immoral act

Is deliberately starting a bushfire an immoral act? It's causing harm to plant and creatures
But if it's controlled back burning done to better manage real fires then it's not immoral
Im sure there would be more examples along those lines

But the main strength of that moral argument is the pain. It's immoral to inflict pain on humans weather they are old, young or unborn. Pain is pain

Even if u disagree u have to admit its a sound moral argument. 

Talk to me also about my social argument about safe sex and responsibility. 
Ultimately that is what is causing so many unwanted pregnancies these days and STDs so more thought needs to be put into fixing the cause as well i think

So very not a 'these day's' issue.  

Have you every been pregnant?

[The Architect Of Fate]

Fair point. 
In trying to think of a counter claim to my own argument I thought the best way would be to find something with the definition i used for an immoral act

You have not

Is deliberately starting a bushfire an immoral act? It's causing harm to plant and creatures

Not equal to abortion 

But if it's controlled back burning done to better manage real fires then it's not immoral

What?

Im sure there would be more examples along those lines

I do't even get how it's an example 

But the main strength of that moral argument is the pain.

Pain is sometimes just

 It's immoral to inflict pain on humans weather they are old, young or unborn. Pain is pain

Not always 

Even if u disagree u have to admit its a sound moral argument.

 Nope

Talk to me also about my social argument about safe sex and responsibility. 

Of which you did a terrible job 

Ultimately that is what is causing so many unwanted pregnancies these days and STDs so more thought needs to be put into fixing the cause as well i think

You failed

[Agnostico]

Fair point. 
In trying to think of a counter claim to my own argument I thought the best way would be to find something with the definition i used for an immoral act

You have not

Is deliberately starting a bushfire an immoral act? It's causing harm to plant and creatures

Not equal to abortion 

But if it's controlled back burning done to better manage real fires then it's not immoral

What?

Im sure there would be more examples along those lines

I do't even get how it's an example 

But the main strength of that moral argument is the pain.

Pain is sometimes just

 It's immoral to inflict pain on humans weather they are old, young or unborn. Pain is pain

Not always 

Even if u disagree u have to admit its a sound moral argument.

 Nope

Talk to me also about my social argument about safe sex and responsibility. 

Of which you did a terrible job 

Ultimately that is what is causing so many unwanted pregnancies these days and STDs so more thought needs to be put into fixing the cause as well i think

You failed

LoL u don't have any idea what u are responding to mate that's why u don't understand. It was in response to someone else.

U just say; nope, failed, terrible job because u are unable to address my claims to offer a counter argument like these guys b4 u did.

So very not a 'these day's' issue.

I said that unprotected sex is the cause of unwanted pregnancies and STDs. U guys reject that without giving any reason.
So in effect you are promoting unprotected sex, u are promoting irresponsible behaviour, unwanted pregnancies and STDs

If u guys were genuine u would provide reasoning instead of outright rejection on its own.

Have you every been pregnant?

U have never provided any logic, just slander. But to answer your irrelevant question i've been involved in pregnancies and took our responsibility.
I'll ask u something. Is it moral to deliberately inflict pain? Is it responsible to have unprotected sex?

[The Architect Of Fate]

LoL u don't have any idea what u are responding to mate that's why u don't understand. It was in response to someone else.

Actually he reason is because your comment makes no sense

U just say; nope, failed, terrible job because u are unable to address my claims to offer a counter argument like these guys b4 u did.

Actually i did address them and countered them

---

I said that unprotected sex is the cause of unwanted pregnancies and STDs. U guys reject that without giving any reason.

Actually you give no reasons 

So in effect you are promoting unprotected sex, u are promoting irresponsible behaviour, unwanted pregnancies and STDs

No we aren't .Nice non sequitur

If u guys were genuine u would provide reasoning instead of outright rejection on its own.

Because all you give are things to reject

---

U have never provided any logic, just slander.

Yes they did .It's you who provides no logic just emotions 

 But to answer your irrelevant question i've been involved in pregnancies and took our responsibility.

So you have never been pregnant .

I'll ask u something. Is it moral to deliberately inflict pain? Is it responsible to have unprotected sex?

It can be moral to inflict pain and no one said it was responsible.