The Jesus story has details that is most definitely made up i just realized!!!

[The Valkyrie]

If anyone ever came along and truely fullfilled all the prophecies that the respected prophets of their culture had made concerning the messiah they have waited so long for, especially considering some of the attributes that this messiah is suppose to posses like performing supernatural acts, the jews would have more than noticed this, and would have embraced this messiah and he would have impressed the world and became the world leader like one of the prophecies claimed, and not have been executed for herecy which is not a messianic prophecy, and we wouldnt have a religion that rejects the prophecies directly address the messiah and embraces non messianic texts in Isaiah which could be attributed to more than jesus who was executed for herecy after claiming this role. It seems that folks who wanted jesus to be the messiah most definitely made things up in his story to both sound convincing and impressive when these things were made up, because the vast majority of jews in the first century most definitely werent impressed with anyone who has claimed that role. plus its well known that Pilat and Herod could not have done what the NT claims they did when they did. Herod died before the 1st century for crying out loud. god told me he prayed to himself and had to let himself know that his will didnt quite agree with his other will, but will submit to his own will afterall,    then let the others he was reciting this to that he told himself "not my will but thine be done". this is insanity to think this is true,  it looks more like a fictiional story about a man who is claimed to be the human incarnate of the invisible skygod that him and his culture believe exists,  and included details about him praying to hisself as if his other personaly, needed to know something which again makes no sense yet the scriptures even says that this god isnt suppose to be confusing.

There are lots of things you haven't considered. For one, there were hundreds, if not thousands of witnesses to Jesus! I know even my meager memory of drunken frat parties can be filled in by several friends who were there. Why not Jesus' revelations and miracles all the more by sober witnesses? Secondly, OT scripture, especially Isaiah; "Suffering Servant", wasn't mainstream, or accepted by any means as the precursor to the Messiah! No, according to the Jewish Priests and scribes, the Messiah was going to "slice & dice", his way across the land.

If there would be a "story to sell"..... it wouldn't be the [Jesus story]: some poor carpenter, wanting you to love the Romans, and eat His body, and drink His blood! And then to be hung on a tree to die, with a bunch of lowly women being the ONLY witnesses to His resurrection. No.... not at all.

The main problem with the Jesus story for nonbelievers, is there is a disconnect for any logic in it. But hey, that was the point! The story, specifically the Gospel, has to be taken in as a "whole works". And, to painfully quantify it; "Love God, and Love thy neighbor as thyself." Doing all of the above will be an act of redemption, and save one from sin and the fires of hell. Whether you (or even some pigmy in the Congo) know Jesus, or not you would be doing His will for us. And thus your ticket to Paradise! Amen

And what you forget to add to your statement is that there are “claims” of being hundreds or thousands of witnesses, yet there are no contemporary accounts of the events, let alone the man’s existence,

We already know that the global flood and Exodus didn’t happen.

[Abaddon_ire]

There are lots of things you haven't considered. For one, there were hundreds, if not thousands of witnesses to Jesus!

And 500 zombies. Don't forget the zombies. Yes, that is in your bible.

I know even my meager memory of drunken frat parties can be filled in by several friends who were there.

Which of the jesus witness can you talk to, or even read the writings of? None.

Why not Jesus' revelations and miracles all the more by sober witnesses?

Because you have no eyewitnesses at all, not even eyewitness testimony.

Secondly, OT scripture, especially Isaiah; "Suffering Servant", wasn't mainstream, or accepted by any means as the precursor to the Messiah! No, according to the Jewish Priests and scribes, the Messiah was going to "slice & dice", his way across the land.

And Isaiah wasn't talking remotely about jesus. That is a later retcon.

If there would be a "story to sell"..... it wouldn't be the [Jesus story]: some poor carpenter, wanting you to love the Romans, and eat His body, and drink His blood! And then to be hung on a tree to die, with a bunch of lowly women being the ONLY witnesses to His resurrection. No.... not at all.

Really. According to your holy book who exactly witnessed the ressurection? Nobody. According to your holy book, the empty tomb was variously found by one woman, two women or a gang of women. The scripture can't even agree with itself.

Seriously, have you not read the bible?

The main problem with the Jesus story for nonbelievers, is there is a disconnect for any logic in it. But hey, that was the point! The story, specifically the Gospel, has to be taken in as a "whole works".

No the authors thought they were being logical.

And, to painfully quantify it; "Love God, and Love thy neighbor as thyself." Doing all of the above will be an act of redemption, and save one from sin and the fires of hell. 

But that was plagiarised from elsewhere.

Whether you (or even some pigmy in the Congo) know Jesus, or not you would be doing His will for us. And thus your ticket to Paradise! Amen

Bull shit. Were that true there would be no missionaries as they would be unnecessary.

[LastPoet]

There are lots of things you haven't considered. For one, there were hundreds, if not thousands of witnesses to Jesus! I know even my meager memory of drunken frat parties can be filled in by several friends who were there. Why not Jesus' revelations and miracles all the more by sober witnesses? Secondly, OT scripture, especially Isaiah; "Suffering Servant", wasn't mainstream, or accepted by any means as the precursor to the Messiah! No, according to the Jewish Priests and scribes, the Messiah was going to "slice & dice", his way across the land.

If there would be a "story to sell"..... it wouldn't be the [Jesus story]: some poor carpenter, wanting you to love the Romans, and eat His body, and drink His blood! And then to be hung on a tree to die, with a bunch of lowly women being the ONLY witnesses to His resurrection. No.... not at all.

The main problem with the Jesus story for nonbelievers, is there is a disconnect for any logic in it. But hey, that was the point! The story, specifically the Gospel, has to be taken in as a "whole works". And, to painfully quantify it; "Love God, and Love thy neighbor as thyself." Doing all of the above will be an act of redemption, and save one from sin and the fires of hell. Whether you (or even some pigmy in the Congo) know Jesus, or not you would be doing His will for us. And thus your ticket to Paradise! Amen

Oh wow, thou hast returned. Feel your faith flailing again ronnie? It's ok, we are used to shovel out bullshit.

Ah paradise, the fools deception. Ramen.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

If anyone ever came along and truely fullfilled all the prophecies that the respected prophets of their culture had made concerning the messiah they have waited so long for, especially considering some of the attributes that this messiah is suppose to posses like performing supernatural acts, the jews would have more than noticed this, and would have embraced this messiah and he would have impressed the world and became the world leader like one of the prophecies claimed, and not have been executed for herecy which is not a messianic prophecy, and we wouldnt have a religion that rejects the prophecies directly address the messiah and embraces non messianic texts in Isaiah which could be attributed to more than jesus who was executed for herecy after claiming this role. It seems that folks who wanted jesus to be the messiah most definitely made things up in his story to both sound convincing and impressive when these things were made up, because the vast majority of jews in the first century most definitely werent impressed with anyone who has claimed that role. plus its well known that Pilat and Herod could not have done what the NT claims they did when they did. Herod died before the 1st century for crying out loud. god told me he prayed to himself and had to let himself know that his will didnt quite agree with his other will, but will submit to his own will afterall,    then let the others he was reciting this to that he told himself "not my will but thine be done". this is insanity to think this is true,  it looks more like a fictiional story about a man who is claimed to be the human incarnate of the invisible skygod that him and his culture believe exists,  and included details about him praying to hisself as if his other personaly, needed to know something which again makes no sense yet the scriptures even says that this god isnt suppose to be confusing.

There are lots of things you haven't considered. For one, there were hundreds, if not thousands of witnesses to Jesus! I know even my meager memory of drunken frat parties can be filled in by several friends who were there. Why not Jesus' revelations and miracles all the more by sober witnesses? Secondly, OT scripture, especially Isaiah; "Suffering Servant", wasn't mainstream, or accepted by any means as the precursor to the Messiah! No, according to the Jewish Priests and scribes, the Messiah was going to "slice & dice", his way across the land.

If there would be a "story to sell"..... it wouldn't be the [Jesus story]: some poor carpenter, wanting you to love the Romans, and eat His body, and drink His blood! And then to be hung on a tree to die, with a bunch of lowly women being the ONLY witnesses to His resurrection. No.... not at all.

The main problem with the Jesus story for nonbelievers, is there is a disconnect for any logic in it. But hey, that was the point! The story, specifically the Gospel, has to be taken in as a "whole works". And, to painfully quantify it; "Love God, and Love thy neighbor as thyself." Doing all of the above will be an act of redemption, and save one from sin and the fires of hell. Whether you (or even some pigmy in the Congo) know Jesus, or not you would be doing His will for us. And thus your ticket to Paradise! Amen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9xRhwmHBBE

Boru

[ronedee]

Oh wow, thou hast returned. Feel your faith flailing again ronnie? It's ok, we are used to shovel out bullshit.

Ah paradise, the fools deception. Ramen.

I see nothing has changed around here! Everyone is still as condescending and combative as usual. It's what's done
here when there is NOTHING to offer. To use an old quote, "...homey don't play that game."

To the newer anti's, I'll just impart my mantra.... I'm not here to convert anyone. Just to plant seeds of doubt in 
your minds. And to look for ANYONE w/ information to tear down my beliefs. Alas, no one has ever managed 
that feat. Only to reinforce it. 

All that said, I do hope that all my old acquaintances, and everyone here is doing fine and enjoying their short existence on earth?

God's blessings! You are all in my prayers! R

[Mister Agenda]

Simon Magus fairly leaps to mind.

Boru

Appolonius of Tyana

Honi the Circle Drawer and his (probable) grandson, Hanan.

---

Oh wow, thou hast returned. Feel your faith flailing again ronnie? It's ok, we are used to shovel out bullshit.

Ah paradise, the fools deception. Ramen.

I see nothing has changed around here! Everyone is still as condescending and combative as usual. It's what's done
here when there is NOTHING to offer. To use an old quote, "...homey don't play that game."

To the newer anti's, I'll just impart my mantra.... I'm not here to convert anyone. Just to plant seeds of doubt in
your minds. And to look for ANYONE w/ information to tear down my beliefs. Alas, no one has ever managed
that feat. Only to reinforce it.

All that said, I do hope that all my old acquaintances, and everyone here is doing fine and enjoying their short existence on earth?

God's blessings! You are all in my prayers! R

Would you take my word for it if I said that after three days of being dead, the religious leader I follow rose? What if I told you hundreds of people saw it happen, would that be enough? You wouldn't even want to know the names of at least some of those witnesses and hear their version of what happened (like if they actually saw the leader die and saw them rise, or just saw someone walking around they were told was the same after they heard he was dead, for instance)?

There are people making these kinds of claims today, it's just easier to fact check them. It doesn't take a hardened heart not to believe such stories, just a moderate amount of sales resistance and not lowering our standards of evidence because it's what other people really believe. Ideally, I shouldn't lower my standards even if it's what I believe.

[Peebothuhlu]

At work.

I see nothing has changed around here! Everyone is still as condescending and combative as usual. It's what's done
here when there is NOTHING to offer. To use an old quote, "...homey don't play that game."

To the newer anti's, I'll just impart my mantra.... I'm not here to convert anyone. Just to plant seeds of doubt in 
your minds. And to look for ANYONE w/ information to tear down my beliefs. Alas, no one has ever managed 
that feat. Only to reinforce it. 

All that said, I do hope that all my old acquaintances, and everyone here is doing fine and enjoying their short existence on earth?

God's blessings! You are all in my prayers! R

Hello!

I don't believe our postings have crossed paths before.

As a happy non-theist I'd be more than happy to have a chat.

Cheers.

[Acrobat]

It just dawned on me that in the least, certain details about the jesus story as written in the bible were just made up.

I want someone to explain to me how in the world anyone could seriously assert to know what Jesus, or anyone else for that matter in the bible would have said when praying? and if anyone dares to say that Jesus came back after being alone and told everyone what he said, and was careful to recite word for word to others, and was remembered by those telling the story 20+ years after his death word for word before his story was finally written, you are suffering from delusion  i highly doubt jesus came back and told folks what his personal prayers to yhwh/god were and word for word and even included the detail that he admitted to yhwh that it wasnt his will to endure what was to come, but submitted to his god's will and not his own. people just dont  repeat things to others like that,..."oh and I told yhwh that it was nt my will to endure what's coming to me soon, but i told yhwh not my will, but thine...". not rational to believe this people, this just isnt going to happen then get told to just the right line of ppl up till it gets written over 20+yrs later.

never once did the scriptures ever say that any of the characters in these stories went around and told  the others that werent present for each event, what happened so how in the heck did anyone know each and every action that each character did when these characters were not always around the same people, and how these entire collection of tories about each character all became knowledge to anyone, then somehow anywhere from a few decades, to thousanbds of years later is known to the ones who finally wrote these down.

I smell a very bad fish here. the fact that thee stories include moments when characters said and did things when they were all by themselves, is far more to me than suspicious. what we know from history, is that both legends and myths are born when folks from the very culture of the characters they write about, the fact that the jews continued on as if noone ever truely came along and displayed supernatural feats, as their prophecies claimed would happen with the prophecied messiah would do is just more reason along with these claims in the scriptures made about this Jesus who was gone decades before he was written about makes certain suspicions very clear. 

If anyone ever came along and truely fullfilled all the prophecies that the respected prophets of their culture had made concerning the messiah they have waited so long for, especially considering some of the attributes that this messiah is suppose to posses like performing supernatural acts, the jews would have more than noticed this, and would have embraced this messiah and he would have impressed the world and became the world leader like one of the prophecies claimed, and not have been executed for herecy which is not a messianic prophecy, and we wouldnt have a religion that rejects the prophecies directly address the messiah and embraces non messianic texts in Isaiah which could be attributed to more than jesus who was executed for herecy after claiming this role. It seems that folks who wanted jesus to be the messiah most definitely made things up in his story to both sound convincing and impressive when these things were made up, because the vast majority of jews in the first century most definitely werent impressed with anyone who has claimed that role. plus its well known that Pilat and Herod could not have done what the NT claims they did when they did. Herod died before the 1st century for crying out loud. god told me he prayed to himself and had to let himself know that his will didnt quite agree with his other will, but will submit to his own will afterall,    then let the others he was reciting this to that he told himself "not my will but thine be done". this is insanity to think this is true,  it looks more like a fictiional story about a man who is claimed to be the human incarnate of the invisible skygod that him and his culture believe exists,  and included details about him praying to hisself as if his other personaly, needed to know something which again makes no sense yet the scriptures even says that this god isnt suppose to be confusing.

Oh wow, you mean to tell me that the writers and their communities invented Christ's prayer that no one heard? Please, next I bet you're going to suggest that Jesus didn't say all three of the competing  last words on the cross portrayed in the Gospels. Or that the story of the stoning of the adulterer wasn't historical, since it's only occurs in John, with nothing mentioned in any of the three earlier gospels. 

If I so I got some swamp land in Florida to sell you.

Out of curiosity, do you believe that people in the ancient world had the same idea and conception of writing histories as we do in our age? In our age the idea of including fictional elements into a historical writings would be anathema, do you think this view was shared among historical writers and their readers in the ancient world?

[ronedee]

---

Would you take my word for it if I said that after three days of being dead, the religious leader I follow rose? What if I told you hundreds of people saw it happen, would that be enough? You wouldn't even want to know the names of at least some of those witnesses and hear their version of what happened (like if they actually saw the leader die and saw them rise, or just saw someone walking around they were told was the same after they heard he was dead, for instance)?

There are people making these kinds of claims today, it's just easier to fact check them. It doesn't take a hardened heart not to believe such stories, just a moderate amount of sales resistance and not lowering our standards of evidence because it's what other people really believe. Ideally, I shouldn't lower my standards even if it's what I believe.

Hey, I get it! I wasn't there. And like you, I do not know what happened exactly. But something did happen. And as I stated, the "Gospel" needs to be understood for the value, and Truth of Jesus' words and actions. What carries the Gospel is the message. Otherwise it would fall flat, per your observations.

Of course, many here will say it "all" falls flat. But, that's not saying any of it isn't true. It just falls on deaf ears. 

I'm not going to try and prove something I wasn't present for. Nor push my faith in any of that way of reasoning. No point. There needs to be a certain amount of belief to justify many of those happenings. 

Jesus said, "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.."  So, that's were I'll lay my heart. In His words, not some accounts from a few period believers.

Thank you for the Civil discourse Mr.A!

---

At work.



Hello!

I don't believe our postings have crossed paths before.

As a happy non-theist I'd be more than happy to have a chat.

Cheers.

Hi Peebo! It's a pleasure! I'm always ready to fire-up a good conversation!

What's your sticking points about Christianity? Does it have more to do w/ the "faithful"? Or is it some fundamental doctrine?

Any bad experiences as a member of the church? Or just witness to some?

Just a convo-starter! If you have a special pet peeve (or even a compliment? ) bring it on! 

Again, a pleasure! R

[Peebothuhlu]

At work.

Hello rondee!

Sorry for lack of direct quote.

I find compiling mutiple replies/quotes together due to how this forum works makes things hard to read.

Well.... with theism in general I just don't see anything to indicate any dieties exist/are about.

Is all.

Nothing against the Christian faith in particular. Though the actions of certain individuals are certainly heinous.

Cheers.