The Jesus story has details that is most definitely made up i just realized!!!

[ronedee]

At work.

Hello rondee!

Sorry for lack of direct quote.

I find compiling mutiple replies/quotes together due to how this forum works makes things hard to read.

Well.... with theism in general I just don't see anything to indicate any dieties exist/are about.

Is all.

Nothing against the Christian faith in particular. Though the actions of certain individuals are certainly heinous.

Cheers.

Not a problem. I'm not a quote dissector. I just enjoy a spirited exchange about the supernatural aspects of religion!

I firmly believe that any understanding at all in a deity, starts with a search of ones own experiences in life. A desire to find 
an answer begins with a burning question. And therein lies the issue with atheists. For them, there is really no desire to generate 
a search for a deity. Quite the opposite. And without hard facts and evidence? It's open season on any person of "faith". It's
a lot easier to shoot us down, then to believe any personal experiences of our own. And personally, I don't really blame anyone
here for that. I would probably do the same if I were in your(atheists in general) shoes too!

But, (and I've had this argument here, before) I would still be the same person IF I were on the other side of the tracks. Maybe not
in a deep spiritual sense. But certainly as a detective, in my search for truth and knowledge. I like to hear all sides of an issue, and make
informed decisions "for" or "against" my own experiences and understandings. It makes me more complete as a person who likes to
debate the issues. 

"Faith" is a hard thing to explain, and to argue for! Extremely hard. But also, it's what our religion is based on. And the only way to attain
faith is to go down that path. And not just over the threshold, but deep into the recesses and fabric of it. And that "aint happening" for
the average atheist. Nope. So, there will always be a divide on thought and reasoning between the two sides.

The only "hope" we have is to form an understanding, and tolerance for each other based on a "wider" Truth of our common experiences.
And that 'can' lead to friendship as long as the lines don't get drawn for some outside reason. R

[Peebothuhlu]

Not a problem. I'm not a quote dissector. I just enjoy a spirited exchange about the supernatural aspects of religion!

I firmly believe that any understanding at all in a deity, starts with a search of ones own experiences in life.
A desire to find an answer begins with a burning question.
And therein lies the issue with atheists. 
For them, there is really no desire to generate a search for a deity.
Quite the opposite.
And without hard facts and evidence?
It's open season on any person of "faith".
It's a lot easier to shoot us down, then to believe any personal experiences of our own.
And personally, I don't really blame anyonehere for that.
I would probably do the same if I were in your(atheists in general) shoes too!

But, (and I've had this argument here, before) I would still be the same person IF I were on the other side of the tracks.
Maybe notin a deep spiritual sense.
But certainly as a detective, in my search for truth and knowledge. 
I like to hear all sides of an issue, and makeinformed decisions "for" or "against" my own experiences and understandings.
It makes me more complete as a person who likes to debate the issues. 

"Faith" is a hard thing to explain, and to argue for!
Extremely hard.
But also, it's what our religion is based on.
And the only way to attain faith is to go down that path.
And not just over the threshold, but deep into the recesses and fabric of it.
And that "aint happening" forthe average atheist.
Nope. So, there will always be a divide on thought and reasoning between the two sides.

The only "hope" we have is to form an understanding, and tolerance for each other based on a "wider" Truth of our common experiences.
And that 'can' lead to friendship as long as the lines don't get drawn for some outside reason. R

Well.... that's a big reply.

 Where to start? ( "Begin at the begining." Said the King. "Go on untill you reach the end AND THEN STOP.")

I think there are a lot of generalizations in your reply.
However, for an opening it's groundlaying, so there's that.
As I started with. I consider myself a 'Non-theist'.
I simply don't see anything to indicate any diety existing and haven't there been an awful lot positied over the time of human existance?
As for 'Personal experiance'?
Personal experiance only goes so far.
Such as finding the top of that mountian.
Seeing where the start of that river arrises in which mountain stream.
Personal experiance doesn't 'Push clouds with our minds' as it were.
At some point when does the reality around us and the things in it and about it take prescedence over 'What we feel'?
I've felt a car impact. Not something I'd recommend.
I know others who've 'Felt' combat round impact. By all accounts also not something to recommend.
Nothing in any one's experiance that I know of have 'Felt' quantum mechanics... Or most aspect of biology or astronomy or geology.
As for other 'Feelings'?
Unfortunately, we're all universes unto ourseles untill the boundaries of our skin.
How do my 'feelings' in anyway impact aything else?

Hope my rambling has been informative as well.

Should others think rondee and I should toddle off and 'Get another thread' to stop us cloggin up this one I'd be happy to do so as well.

Cheers.

Not at work.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

At work.

Hello rondee!

Sorry for lack of direct quote.

I find compiling mutiple replies/quotes together due to how this forum works makes things hard to read.

Well.... with theism in general I just don't see anything to indicate any dieties exist/are about.

Is all.

Nothing against the Christian faith in particular. Though the actions of certain individuals are certainly heinous.

Cheers.

Not a problem. I'm not a quote dissector. I just enjoy a spirited exchange about the supernatural aspects of religion!

I firmly believe that any understanding at all in a deity, starts with a search of ones own experiences in life. A desire to find 
an answer begins with a burning question. And therein lies the issue with atheists. For them, there is really no desire to generate 
a search for a deity. Quite the opposite. And without hard facts and evidence? It's open season on any person of "faith". It's
a lot easier to shoot us down, then to believe any personal experiences of our own. And personally, I don't really blame anyone
here for that. I would probably do the same if I were in your(atheists in general) shoes too!

But, (and I've had this argument here, before) I would still be the same person IF I were on the other side of the tracks. Maybe not
in a deep spiritual sense. But certainly as a detective, in my search for truth and knowledge. I like to hear all sides of an issue, and make
informed decisions "for" or "against" my own experiences and understandings. It makes me more complete as a person who likes to
debate the issues. 

"Faith" is a hard thing to explain, and to argue for! Extremely hard. But also, it's what our religion is based on. And the only way to attain
faith is to go down that path. And not just over the threshold, but deep into the recesses and fabric of it. And that "aint happening" for
the average atheist. Nope. So, there will always be a divide on thought and reasoning between the two sides.

The only "hope" we have is to form an understanding, and tolerance for each other based on a "wider" Truth of our common experiences.
And that 'can' lead to friendship as long as the lines don't get drawn for some outside reason. R

I really can't see myself having a 'tolerance' for religion until and unless it rejects slavery.  Since that's not going to happen anything soon, the best you can hope for is a sort of bemused indifference.

Boru

[ronedee]

Not a problem. I'm not a quote dissector. I just enjoy a spirited exchange about the supernatural aspects of religion!

I firmly believe that any understanding at all in a deity, starts with a search of ones own experiences in life.
A desire to find an answer begins with a burning question.
And therein lies the issue with atheists. 
For them, there is really no desire to generate a search for a deity.
Quite the opposite.
And without hard facts and evidence?
It's open season on any person of "faith".
It's a lot easier to shoot us down, then to believe any personal experiences of our own.
And personally, I don't really blame anyonehere for that.
I would probably do the same if I were in your(atheists in general) shoes too!

But, (and I've had this argument here, before) I would still be the same person IF I were on the other side of the tracks.
Maybe notin a deep spiritual sense.
But certainly as a detective, in my search for truth and knowledge. 
I like to hear all sides of an issue, and makeinformed decisions "for" or "against" my own experiences and understandings.
It makes me more complete as a person who likes to debate the issues. 

"Faith" is a hard thing to explain, and to argue for!
Extremely hard.
But also, it's what our religion is based on.
And the only way to attain faith is to go down that path.
And not just over the threshold, but deep into the recesses and fabric of it.
And that "aint happening" forthe average atheist.
Nope. So, there will always be a divide on thought and reasoning between the two sides.

The only "hope" we have is to form an understanding, and tolerance for each other based on a "wider" Truth of our common experiences.
And that 'can' lead to friendship as long as the lines don't get drawn for some outside reason. R

Well.... that's a big reply.

 Where to start? ( "Begin at the begining." Said the King. "Go on untill you reach the end AND THEN STOP.")

I think there are a lot of generalizations in your reply.
However, for an opening it's groundlaying, so there's that.
As I started with. I consider myself a 'Non-theist'.
I simply don't see anything to indicate any diety existing and haven't there been an awful lot positied over the time of human existance?
As for 'Personal experiance'?
Personal experiance only goes so far.
Such as finding the top of that mountian.
Seeing where the start of that river arrises in which mountain stream.
Personal experiance doesn't 'Push clouds with our minds' as it were.
At some point when does the reality around us and the things in it and about it take prescedence over 'What we feel'?
I've felt a car impact. Not something I'd recommend.
I know others who've 'Felt' combat round impact. By all accounts also not something to recommend.
Nothing in any one's experiance that I know of have 'Felt' quantum mechanics... Or most aspect of biology or astronomy or geology.
As for other 'Feelings'?
Unfortunately, we're all universes unto ourseles untill the boundaries of our skin.
How do my 'feelings' in anyway impact aything else?

Hope my rambling has been informative as well.

Should others think rondee and I should toddle off and 'Get another thread' to stop us cloggin up this one I'd be happy to do so as well.

Cheers.

Not at work.

Thanks for your reply! And yes, it was informative. I hope you don't mind me saying that it's not groundbreaking. Most here
feel as you do, albeit a bit more hard edged. 

But, you are right that we should take to another thread, as not to pirate this one. I'll probably think of a subject in this vein soon
and we'll chat! Peace, R

[Peebothuhlu]

Thanks for your reply! And yes, it was informative. I hope you don't mind me saying that it's not groundbreaking. Most here
feel as you do, albeit a bit more hard edged. 

But, you are right that we should take to another thread, as not to pirate this one. I'll probably think of a subject in this vein soon
and we'll chat! Peace, R

*Puts away feathered hat, pistols and other piratical paraphernalia...*

   

Not at work.

[Godscreated]

It just dawned on me that in the least, certain details about the jesus story as written in the bible were just made up.

I want someone to explain to me how in the world anyone could seriously assert to know what Jesus, or anyone else for that matter in the bible would have said when praying? and if anyone dares to say that Jesus came back after being alone and told everyone what he said, and was careful to recite word for word to others, and was remembered by those telling the story 20+ years after his death word for word before his story was finally written, you are suffering from delusion  i highly doubt jesus came back and told folks what his personal prayers to yhwh/god were and word for word and even included the detail that he admitted to yhwh that it wasnt his will to endure what was to come, but submitted to his god's will and not his own. people just dont  repeat things to others like that,..."oh and I told yhwh that it was nt my will to endure what's coming to me soon, but i told yhwh not my will, but thine...". not rational to believe this people, this just isnt going to happen then get told to just the right line of ppl up till it gets written over 20+yrs later.

You should at the least read the scriptures before condemning them. It's very apparent that you have a tremendous lack of biblical knowledge. Jesus told his disciples that the Holy Spirit would bring back to them the memory and details of Jesus life, this is what is meant by divine inspiration. Being that the Holy Spirit is the third part of the God Head and knows all that happens with God He then would be able to recount the prayers of Jesus word for word and then inspire them to be written down. it is quite rational and holds true as the way the scriptures came into being.
 

never once did the scriptures ever say that any of the characters in these stories went around and told  the others that werent present for each event, what happened so how in the heck did anyone know each and every action that each character did when these characters were not always around the same people, and how these entire collection of tories about each character all became knowledge to anyone, then somehow anywhere from a few decades, to thousanbds of years later is known to the ones who finally wrote these down.

Luke stated that most of what he wrote came from witnesses because he had no actual experiences in Jesus life.

I smell a very bad fish here. the fact that thee stories include moments when characters said and did things when they were all by themselves, is far more to me than suspicious. what we know from history, is that both legends and myths are born when folks from the very culture of the characters they write about, the fact that the jews continued on as if noone ever truely came along and displayed supernatural feats, as their prophecies claimed would happen with the prophecied messiah would do is just more reason along with these claims in the scriptures made about this Jesus who was gone decades before he was written about makes certain suspicions very clear.

Jesus most certainly did things that were supernatural, they were witnessed by many and those supernatural events are the cause of many who followed Him. Jesus even told the religious leaders that they had seen these events yet they still did not believe.

If anyone ever came along and truely fullfilled all the prophecies that the respected prophets of their culture had made concerning the messiah they have waited so long for, especially considering some of the attributes that this messiah is suppose to posses like performing supernatural acts, the jews would have more than noticed this, and would have embraced this messiah and he would have impressed the world and became the world leader like one of the prophecies claimed, and not have been executed for herecy which is not a messianic prophecy, and we wouldnt have a religion that rejects the prophecies directly address the messiah and embraces non messianic texts in Isaiah which could be attributed to more than jesus who was executed for herecy after claiming this role. It seems that folks who wanted jesus to be the messiah most definitely made things up in his story to both sound convincing and impressive when these things were made up, because the vast majority of jews in the first century most definitely werent impressed with anyone who has claimed that role. plus its well known that Pilat and Herod could not have done what the NT claims they did when they did. Herod died before the 1st century for crying out loud. god told me he prayed to himself and had to let himself know that his will didnt quite agree with his other will, but will submit to his own will afterall,    then let the others he was reciting this to that he told himself "not my will but thine be done". this is insanity to think this is true,  it looks more like a fictiional story about a man who is claimed to be the human incarnate of the invisible skygod that him and his culture believe exists,  and included details about him praying to hisself as if his other personaly, needed to know something which again makes no sense yet the scriptures even says that this god isnt suppose to be confusing.

 There's so much wrong with your above statements that it could take forever to address them all. I will mention a few, Jesus did fulfill all the prophecies about His life and purpose, you can't see this because of your lack of biblical knowledge, so what you do is spout what others have said and you couldn't have any idea if they had any biblical knowledge either. This makes you a parrot of false information, you've allowed yourself to look ridiculous on the false statements of others, take heart though many here do the same thing putting you in good company.
The prophecies state that Jesus did not come the first time to be a world leader, but to give His life for the redemption of all who would accept what He did for us. Jesus wasn't executed for heresy, even Pilate stated this very thing. The Jewish religious leaders had to make up some kind of charge before they could bring Jesus before Pilate  and he gave into them to keep the peace because the peace that existed in Jerusalem at that time was tenuous at best.
 Jesus prayed to the Father because they have a relationship as father and son. Your lack of understanding the Trinity shows itself. First you have to understand when the Son became a man, the man Jesus He had to lay down all His powers, the powers He used to do the miracles came from the Father, just as the miracles others in the scriptures preformed. No man has the powers to do miracles of the supernatural kind.

GC

[Jehanne]

First you have to understand when the Son became a man, the man Jesus He had to lay down all His powers, the powers He used to do the miracles came from the Father, just as the miracles others in the scriptures preformed. No man has the powers to do miracles of the supernatural kind.

GC

GC,

If Jesus performed miracles, why did the Jewish and pagan (i.e., Roman & Greek) authors who lived during and right after Jesus' time (30 CE) never mention his existence?  And, why did Paul, in his 7 authentic epistles never mention any of Jesus' miracles?

Dawn

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

The really interesting thing (for me, at least) isn't the parts of the Jesus story that are made up, but how many parts are plagiarized.

Boru

[Jehanne]

The really interesting thing (for me, at least) isn't the parts of the Jesus story that are made up, but how many parts are plagiarized.

Boru

The early Christians forged documents; such is not disputed by any scholar.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

The really interesting thing (for me, at least) isn't the parts of the Jesus story that are made up, but how many parts are plagiarized.

Boru

The early Christians forged documents; such is not disputed by any scholar.

Umm...ok.

Boru