Interesting discussion, but I was approaching it from a pantheist perspective. If the universe is God, then energy and matter are God.
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God, Energy and Matter
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 (September 18, 2019 at 12:08 pm)Lek Wrote: Interesting discussion, but I was approaching it from a pantheist perspective. If the universe is God, then energy and matter are God. If god is bacon, then bacon sandwich is god. If i played lotto, i would win a gazillion. If i wasnt stupid, i´d be smart. If blue tasted like carrot, that would be weird. If!
Cetero censeo religionem delendam esse
Lek, if your god is the universe, then it obeys physical laws, is not sentient, nor conscious in any way that we can measure.
The universe does not reveal information to you. You must discover knowledge on your own and be able to verify and test that knowledge against any new information obtained in the future. You might as well call your god a rock.
Insanity - Doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result
RE: God, Energy and Matter
September 18, 2019 at 2:19 pm
(This post was last modified: September 18, 2019 at 2:22 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(September 18, 2019 at 12:08 pm)Lek Wrote: Interesting discussion, but I was approaching it from a pantheist perspective. If the universe is God, then energy and matter are God. If a toaster is god, then plastic and aluminum are god. Or, you know, maybe parts and wholes. Even in pantheism, energy and matter aren't god. The universe is god.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
LastPoet
 Leader of the gang of jerkoffs(tm)  Religious Views: L'Uomo verrà portato dalla sua creazione
The pantheist god is like the surrogate god when people are faced with the dogmatic religions. Same thing with the deist god. At least they aren't atheist lel. In some places of the world it might safeguard people from being branded, so I hear.
If the universe is god why have two words for the same thing? Economy people! RE: God, Energy and Matter
September 18, 2019 at 3:04 pm
(This post was last modified: September 18, 2019 at 3:06 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Because one asserts that the x has the salient properties of a god, and the other does not.
Fun stuff. Anywho, Spinoza, probably the most influential pantheist ever, may have been an atheist taking what shelter he could while offering necessary criticism of the god imagined in his own time and how that effected human beings.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
 (September 18, 2019 at 12:08 pm)Lek Wrote: Interesting discussion, but I was approaching it from a pantheist perspective. If the universe is God, then energy and matter are God. I don't think so. You appear to be using pantheism as a dishonest stepping stone to your own theistic crap. It ain't gonna fly. Because you are not a pantheist.  RE: God, Energy and Matter
September 18, 2019 at 7:26 pm
(This post was last modified: September 18, 2019 at 7:26 pm by EgoDeath.)
(September 18, 2019 at 11:14 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: Religious naturalism explicitly rejects god and spirituality, of any kind. It rejects the very notions as a misattribution. No god, no animating force, no spirit. Just nature, metaphysically ultimate. That's not true. Plenty of religious naturalists believe in spirituality and god, so long as those things can be explained by naturalistic phenomenon. https://www.snsociety.org/do-spiritual-n...ve-in-god/ After all, why not just call it naturalism if there is no religious connotation? And no, if you're claiming there is a god, we should really see some evidence for that claim, which we never do, so it's always silly.
If you're frightened of dying, and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the Earth.
RE: God, Energy and Matter
September 18, 2019 at 8:26 pm
(This post was last modified: September 18, 2019 at 8:34 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
*for novel definitions of "spirituality" and "god" that are conceived of without a god, spirit, or animating force of any kind. It's naturalism, after all.
It's called religious naturalism for it's religious content, not it's theistic or even supernatural content. It's not a requirement of a religion, that it be theistic. The claim in this regard is only that some x about energy and matter reminds him of his god concept. He's provided you evidence of possessing a god concept...by the simple act of describing one. In this case, as energy-and-matter-alike. Whats silly about noticing that his god concept, which exists, is similar to his energy and matter concept, which exists?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
RE: God, Energy and Matter
September 18, 2019 at 10:09 pm
(This post was last modified: September 18, 2019 at 10:10 pm by EgoDeath.
Edit Reason: spelling
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If it doesn't hold religious elements it's just naturalism, and we've no need to add the word "religious."
Religion always has been related to supernatural, transcendental or spiritual concepts, but you're right, it doesn't necessarily need to be theistic. All in all, if one's version of "religious naturalism" contains no traces of god, spirituality or anything else we could really consider "religious," then it's just naturalism. Though, this is getting into semantics and really missing the point. If Lek is claiming is that the concepts of energy remind him of god, that means he's claiming to have knowledge about what god is and how god operates. That's what's silly. He's starting with a faulty concept to create this useless comparison. If all he's saying is that's he noticed the concepts surrounding energy and matter coincide with his preconceived, baseless concept of god which has no evidence to support it... well... then okay?
If you're frightened of dying, and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the Earth.
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