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RE: More religious liberty in Ohio
November 19, 2019 at 7:44 pm
(November 19, 2019 at 7:39 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (November 19, 2019 at 7:26 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: Hahahahahahahaha! No, no..it's okay, you don't understand Ohio (who would?), and that's understandable.
Yes, it's explicitly aimed at evangelical conservatives. Yes, it would let them blow jesus all over their tests and claim persecution. Best case scenario, is that it's just a shameless attempt to pander to that demographic ahead of 2020, that will amount to nothing.
Hahahahahahahaha!
You should read the bill. ALL of the bill. I don't know I can make it any plainer: It specifically prevents a student from getting a better grade for invoking Jesus (or any other religious idea).
Boru
It would also prevent them from getting a worse grade.
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RE: More religious liberty in Ohio
November 19, 2019 at 7:48 pm
(This post was last modified: November 19, 2019 at 7:49 pm by GrandizerII.)
(November 19, 2019 at 5:10 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (November 19, 2019 at 5:09 pm)Grandizer Wrote: I absolutely disagree with these shitty allowances that continue to foster these Christianity-based privileges in society, but it seems like it's basically a "it's not what you think, but how you think" which in principle (at least) is a good thing.
It's not fostering a Christianity-based privilege. It's preventing one.
Boru
Fair enough. Should read the bill first lol
Still disagree with the prevent bit, based on what you described
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RE: More religious liberty in Ohio
November 19, 2019 at 7:48 pm
(November 19, 2019 at 7:44 pm)brewer Wrote: (November 19, 2019 at 7:39 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Hahahahahahahaha!
You should read the bill. ALL of the bill. I don't know I can make it any plainer: It specifically prevents a student from getting a better grade for invoking Jesus (or any other religious idea).
Boru
It would also prevent them from getting a worse grade.
Exactly. Why should they get a worse grade?
If the question is 'What is the capital of the UK?', the correct answer is 'London'. Full marks.
If the question is 'What is the capital of the UK?', the correct answer is 'London, praise Jesus.' Still full marks.
How does adding 'praise Jesus' make the answer any less correct? If the answer isn't any less correct, why should they get a lower grade?
Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
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RE: More religious liberty in Ohio
November 19, 2019 at 8:07 pm
(This post was last modified: November 19, 2019 at 8:09 pm by brewer.)
(November 19, 2019 at 7:48 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (November 19, 2019 at 7:44 pm)brewer Wrote: It would also prevent them from getting a worse grade.
Exactly. Why should they get a worse grade?
If the question is 'What is the capital of the UK?', the correct answer is 'London'. Full marks.
If the question is 'What is the capital of the UK?', the correct answer is 'London, praise Jesus.' Still full marks.
How does adding 'praise Jesus' make the answer any less correct? If the answer isn't any less correct, why should they get a lower grade?
Boru
No offense but it seems like you're thinking only in black and white. Let me put forward a couple of hypothetical's as examples.
Speech class where the student is to demonstrate different types of speeches (motivational, impromptu, ......) The teacher assigns a directional where the student is to describe the steps to complete a task (i.w. bake a cake). The religious student gives a speech about how to pray.
Art class where the students are learning to draw human models/forms. The assignment is to draw someone in the family. The student returns with a drawing of jesus stating that they consider jesus part of the family.
Sounds like in these examples they should get a worse grade, but it also sounds like a case that could be challenged.
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RE: More religious liberty in Ohio
November 19, 2019 at 8:43 pm
(This post was last modified: November 19, 2019 at 8:44 pm by BrianSoddingBoru4.)
(November 19, 2019 at 8:07 pm)brewer Wrote: (November 19, 2019 at 7:48 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Exactly. Why should they get a worse grade?
If the question is 'What is the capital of the UK?', the correct answer is 'London'. Full marks.
If the question is 'What is the capital of the UK?', the correct answer is 'London, praise Jesus.' Still full marks.
How does adding 'praise Jesus' make the answer any less correct? If the answer isn't any less correct, why should they get a lower grade?
Boru
No offense but it seems like you're thinking only in black and white. Let me put forward a couple of hypothetical's as examples.
Speech class where the student is to demonstrate different types of speeches (motivational, impromptu, ......) The teacher assigns a directional where the student is to describe the steps to complete a task (i.w. bake a cake). The religious student gives a speech about how to pray.
Art class where the students are learning to draw human models/forms. The assignment is to draw someone in the family. The student returns with a drawing of jesus stating that they consider jesus part of the family.
Sounds like in these examples they should get a worse grade, but it also sounds like a case that could be challenged.
No offense taken.
But the bill states that they can't get a worse grade because of religious content. I don't see how these hypotheticals would be an issue. If the student describes how to pray, as long as it follows what is being taught in the course, so what? As for the Jesus-drawing, as long as it conforms to things like line and perspective, ok.
WHY should a student who draws Jesus as part of a drawing class (or a student who declaims on how to pray for a speech class) be given a worse grade based on their choice of subject?
Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
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RE: More religious liberty in Ohio
November 19, 2019 at 8:51 pm
(This post was last modified: November 19, 2019 at 9:01 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I've got a bridge to sell you Boru.
The correct catholic answer, by the way, is "The Vatican". It's gods capital, ergo it's the capital of the entire universe. The content and substance of my answer are credible, don't restrict my religious freedumbs!
Though... I doubt that the fundies had the followers of Cathol, or worse...muslims in mind when they decided to write an explicitly pandering bill. They're not interested in better grades...they're tired of getting failing grades, lol. Bad grades are persecution, dontchaknow. If they can't tell their teacher, in erudite sentences..... that the test is wrong, based on their firmly held religious principle of being committed dipshits, that's as good as sending them to the gulag.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: More religious liberty in Ohio
November 19, 2019 at 9:44 pm
Just so we’re clear, this the text of the bill:
Quote: Sec. 3320.03. No school district board of education, governing authority of a community school established under Chapter 3314. of the Revised Code, governing body of a STEM school established under Chapter 3326. of the Revised Code, or board of trustees of a college-preparatory boarding school established under Chapter 3328. of the Revised Code shall prohibit a student from engaging in religious expression in the completion of homework, artwork, or other written or oral assignments. Assignment grades and scores shall be calculated using ordinary academic standards of substance and relevance, including any legitimate pedagogical concerns, and shall not penalize or reward a student based on the religious content of a student’s work.
The “substance and relevance” portion should point towards Boru’s argument. Then again, If true, it would seem largely superfluous, but it’s only when the law is interpreted that we can tell if it’s good or not.
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RE: More religious liberty in Ohio
November 19, 2019 at 9:57 pm
(November 19, 2019 at 8:43 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (November 19, 2019 at 8:07 pm)brewer Wrote: No offense but it seems like you're thinking only in black and white. Let me put forward a couple of hypothetical's as examples.
Speech class where the student is to demonstrate different types of speeches (motivational, impromptu, ......) The teacher assigns a directional where the student is to describe the steps to complete a task (i.w. bake a cake). The religious student gives a speech about how to pray.
Art class where the students are learning to draw human models/forms. The assignment is to draw someone in the family. The student returns with a drawing of jesus stating that they consider jesus part of the family.
Sounds like in these examples they should get a worse grade, but it also sounds like a case that could be challenged.
No offense taken.
But the bill states that they can't get a worse grade because of religious content. I don't see how these hypotheticals would be an issue. If the student describes how to pray, as long as it follows what is being taught in the course, so what? As for the Jesus-drawing, as long as it conforms to things like line and perspective, ok.
WHY should a student who draws Jesus as part of a drawing class (or a student who declaims on how to pray for a speech class) be given a worse grade based on their choice of subject?
Boru
Talking about praying was not the assignment. Drawing jesus was not the assignment. Not completing an assignment gets you a worse grade.
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RE: More religious liberty in Ohio
November 19, 2019 at 11:28 pm
(This post was last modified: November 19, 2019 at 11:28 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Not if the proponents of this bill have anything to say about it, you filthy liberal-spiring un-person.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: More religious liberty in Ohio
November 20, 2019 at 8:58 am
The problem in the bill is decide *which* academic standards are to be used. Let's give a scenario.
Suppose we are in a geology class and the teacher asks when the Jurassic period was. One student gives ana answer of 8250 years ago.
Can the teacher mark it wrong?
The student claims that this is the correct answer according to their religion and it conforms to the conclusions of the Institute for Creation Research, so it passes *their* religions academic standards.
According to this law, as stated, the teacher cannot give the student a lower grade for that answer.
And that is fundamentally wrong.
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