Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: May 18, 2022, 5:49 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Muslims: If the Koran is Unaltered...
#21
RE: Muslims: If the Koran is Unaltered...
It isn't but it's good to see you make up your mind about something...
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#22
RE: Muslims: If the Koran is Unaltered...
Quran was revealed to a person who was illiterate by the angel Gabriel

In that way, like a song

Quote:“Or do they say that he has invented it? Say (to them), ‘Bring ten invented chapters like it, and call (for help) on whomever you can besides God, if you are truthful.” (Quran 11:13)




Reply
#23
RE: Muslims: If the Koran is Unaltered...
(April 19, 2020 at 6:39 am)Ashwin39 Wrote: Quran was revealed to a person who was illiterate by the angel Gabriel

In that way, like a song

Quote:“Or do they say that he has invented it? Say (to them), ‘Bring ten invented chapters like it, and call (for help) on whomever you can besides God, if you are truthful.” (Quran 11:13)





Nope.

Boru
‘Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.’ Ralph Waldo Emerson
Reply
#24
RE: Muslims: If the Koran is Unaltered...
You want more proof ?

This was revealed to the prophet by angel gabriel himself

Because the whole Quran rhymes like a mosquito


Quote:1. “Read (Proclaim!) In the Name of your Lord Who created"
2. “Created man, out of a clot (of congealed blood).”
3. “Read (Proclaim), and your Lord is the Most Generous,"
4. “Who taught by the Pen,”
5. “Taught man that which he knew not.


[Image: parable-even-of-a-mosquito.jpg]








Now listen again

Angel
Reply
#25
RE: Muslims: If the Koran is Unaltered...
I don't think that Boru was disagreeing about whether or not vast portions of magic book rhyme, lol.

That being said - the english translation doesn't help to express the mnemonics.

Iqra bismi rab bikal lazee khalaq

Khalaqal insaana min ‘alaq

Iqra/ warabbuka al-akram

Allathee AAallama bilqalam

AAallama al-insana ma lamyaAAlam

It helps, especially if you are illiterate, or if you live in a culture that just doesn't write, for these stories to rhyme. Makes them more suitable for oral transmission. That's not only true of islam, but of myths and legends from all over the world. Plays and limericks and pop songs...too. Rhyming is just one thing, though. Magic book, like a play or limerick or pop song, also makes use of pattern in language other ways.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#26
RE: Muslims: If the Koran is Unaltered...
(April 19, 2020 at 7:06 am)Ashwin39 Wrote: You want more proof ?

This was revealed to the prophet by angel gabriel himself

Because the whole Quran rhymes like a mosquito


Quote:1. “Read (Proclaim!) In the Name of your Lord Who created"
2. “Created man, out of a clot (of congealed blood).”
3. “Read (Proclaim), and your Lord is the Most Generous,"
4. “Who taught by the Pen,”
5. “Taught man that which he knew not.


[Image: parable-even-of-a-mosquito.jpg]








Now listen again

Angel

I can't 'listen again', because I didn't listen the first time.

You aren't offering proof, you're merely stating assertions.

The Poetic Edda 'rhymes' throughout.  This doesn't make the stories in it 'true' and it certainly doesn't mean it was inspired by the gods.  More impressive still is the Finnish  'Suomen Kansen Vanhat Runot' - 33 volumes and 85 000 lines of perfectly rhymed poems.  It is of divine origin? Nope.

What makes your fairly tale more impressive than these?

Boru
‘Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.’ Ralph Waldo Emerson
Reply
#27
RE: Muslims: If the Koran is Unaltered...
114 chapters , 6,236 verses







It is a well known fact that The Quran (in Arabic) is a book of literary excellence. Many scholars worldwide, including non-Muslims as well, regard The Quran to be of superior quality in language, style etc. Please note, I do not mean “best seller” status, I mean it is regarded by scholars in the field of literature to be of superior quality. It’s a totally different thing. Without necessarily agreeing with all that they said, I have chosen to present some opinions about The Quran from some important non-Muslim scholars below -


"However often we turn to it [the Quran] at first disgusting us each time afresh, it soon attracts, astounds, and in the end enforces our reverence... Its style, in accordance with its contents and aim is stern, grand, terrible - ever and anon truly sublime -- Thus this book will go on exercising through all ages a most potent influence." --Goethe, quoted in T.P. Hughes' DICTIONARY OF ISLAM, p. 526.


"The Koran admittedly occupies an important position among the great religious books of the world. Though the youngest of the epoch-making works belonging to this class of literature, it yields to hardly any in the wonderful effect which it has produced on large masses of men. It has created an all but new phase of human thought and a fresh type of character. It first transformed a number of heterogeneous desert tribes of the Arabian peninsula into a nation of heroes, and then proceeded to create the vast politico-religious organizations of the Muhammadan world which are one of the great forces with which Europe and the East have to reckon today." --G. Margoliouth, Introduction to J.M. Rodwell's, THE KORAN, New York: Everyman's Library, 1977, p. vii.


"A work, then, which calls forth so powerful and seemingly incompatible emotions even in the distant reader - distant as to time, and still more so as a mental development - a work which not only conquers the repugnance which he may begin its perusal, but changes this adverse feeling into astonishment and admiration, such a work must be a wonderful production of the human mind indeed and a problem of the highest interest to every thoughtful observer of the destinies of mankind." --Dr. Steingass, quoted in T.P. Hughes' DICTIONARY OF ISLAM, pp. 526-527.


"The above observation makes the hypothesis advanced by those who see Muhammad as the author of the Qur'an untenable. How could a man, from being illiterate, become the most important author, in terms of literary merits, in the whole of Arabic literature? How could he then pronounce truths of a scientific nature that no other human being could possibly have developed at that time, and all this without once making the slightest error in his pronouncement on the subject?" --Maurice Bucaille, THE BIBLE, THE QUR'AN AND SCIENCE, 1978, p. 125.


"Here, therefore, its merits as a literary production should perhaps not be measured by some preconceived maxims of subjective and aesthetic taste, but by the effects which it produced in Muhammad's contemporaries and fellow countrymen. If it spoke so powerfully and convincingly to the hearts of his hearers as to weld hitherto centrifugal and antagonistic elements into one compact and well-organized body, animated by ideas far beyond those which had until now ruled the Arabian mind, then its eloquence was perfect, simply because it created a civilized nation out of savage tribes, and shot a fresh woof into the old warp of history." --Dr. Steingass, quoted in T.P. Hughes' DICTIONARY OF ISLAM, p. 528.


"In making the present attempt to improve on the performance of my predecessors, and to produce something which might be accepted as echoing however faintly the sublime rhetoric of the Arabic Koran, I have been at pains to study the intricate and richly varied rhythms which - apart from the message itself - constitute the Koran's undeniable claim to rank amongst the greatest literary masterpieces of mankind... This very characteristic feature - 'that inimitable symphony,' as the believing Pickthall described his Holy Book, 'the very sounds of which move men to tears and ecstasy' - has been almost totally ignored by previous translators; it is therefore not surprising that what they have wrought sounds dull and flat indeed in comparison with the splendidly decorated original." --Arthur J. Arberry, THE KORAN INTERPRETED, London: Oxford University Press, 1964

"A totally objective examination of it [the Qur'an] in the light of modern knowledge, leads us to recognize the agreement between the two, as has been already noted on repeated occasions. It makes us deem it quite unthinkable for a man of Muhammad's time to have been the author of such statements on account of the state of knowledge in his day. Such considerations are part of what gives the Qur'anic Revelation its unique place, and forces the impartial scientist to admit his inability to provide an explanation which calls solely upon materialistic reasoning." --Maurice Bucaille, THE QUR'AN AND MODERN SCIENCE, 1981, p. 18.


“It is by far the finest work of Arabic prose in existence.” -- Alan Jones (The Oriental Institute, Oxford)
Reply
#28
RE: Muslims: If the Koran is Unaltered...
Or, if we're looking at the verses above, aabbb - why magic book could not have been made more impressive with more intricate pattern - like so

aabba/a
There once was a man from Nantucket
Who kept all his cash in a bucket.
But his daughter, named Nan,
Ran away with a man
And as for the bucket, Nantucket.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#29
RE: Muslims: If the Koran is Unaltered...
(April 19, 2020 at 7:38 am)Ashwin39 Wrote: 114 chapters , 6,236 verses







It is a well known fact that The Quran (in Arabic) is a book of literary excellence. Many scholars worldwide, including non-Muslims as well, regard The Quran to be of superior quality in language, style etc. Please note, I do not mean “best seller” status, I mean it is regarded by scholars in the field of literature to be of superior quality. It’s a totally different thing. Without necessarily agreeing with all that they said, I have chosen to present some opinions about The Quran from some important non-Muslim scholars below -


"However often we turn to it [the Quran] at first disgusting us each time afresh, it soon attracts, astounds, and in the end enforces our reverence... Its style, in accordance with its contents and aim is stern, grand, terrible - ever and anon truly sublime -- Thus this book will go on exercising through all ages a most potent influence." --Goethe, quoted in T.P. Hughes' DICTIONARY OF ISLAM, p. 526.


"The Koran admittedly occupies an important position among the great religious books of the world. Though the youngest of the epoch-making works belonging to this class of literature, it yields to hardly any in the wonderful effect which it has produced on large masses of men. It has created an all but new phase of human thought and a fresh type of character. It first transformed a number of heterogeneous desert tribes of the Arabian peninsula into a nation of heroes, and then proceeded to create the vast politico-religious organizations of the Muhammadan world which are one of the great forces with which Europe and the East have to reckon today." --G. Margoliouth, Introduction to J.M. Rodwell's, THE KORAN, New York: Everyman's Library, 1977, p. vii.


"A work, then, which calls forth so powerful and seemingly incompatible emotions even in the distant reader - distant as to time, and still more so as a mental development - a work which not only conquers the repugnance which he may begin its perusal, but changes this adverse feeling into astonishment and admiration, such a work must be a wonderful production of the human mind indeed and a problem of the highest interest to every thoughtful observer of the destinies of mankind." --Dr. Steingass, quoted in T.P. Hughes' DICTIONARY OF ISLAM, pp. 526-527.


"The above observation makes the hypothesis advanced by those who see Muhammad as the author of the Qur'an untenable. How could a man, from being illiterate, become the most important author, in terms of literary merits, in the whole of Arabic literature? How could he then pronounce truths of a scientific nature that no other human being could possibly have developed at that time, and all this without once making the slightest error in his pronouncement on the subject?" --Maurice Bucaille, THE BIBLE, THE QUR'AN AND SCIENCE, 1978, p. 125.


"Here, therefore, its merits as a literary production should perhaps not be measured by some preconceived maxims of subjective and aesthetic taste, but by the effects which it produced in Muhammad's contemporaries and fellow countrymen. If it spoke so powerfully and convincingly to the hearts of his hearers as to weld hitherto centrifugal and antagonistic elements into one compact and well-organized body, animated by ideas far beyond those which had until now ruled the Arabian mind, then its eloquence was perfect, simply because it created a civilized nation out of savage tribes, and shot a fresh woof into the old warp of history." --Dr. Steingass, quoted in T.P. Hughes' DICTIONARY OF ISLAM, p. 528.


"In making the present attempt to improve on the performance of my predecessors, and to produce something which might be accepted as echoing however faintly the sublime rhetoric of the Arabic Koran, I have been at pains to study the intricate and richly varied rhythms which - apart from the message itself - constitute the Koran's undeniable claim to rank amongst the greatest literary masterpieces of mankind... This very characteristic feature - 'that inimitable symphony,' as the believing Pickthall described his Holy Book, 'the very sounds of which move men to tears and ecstasy' - has been almost totally ignored by previous translators; it is therefore not surprising that what they have wrought sounds dull and flat indeed in comparison with the splendidly decorated original." --Arthur J. Arberry, THE KORAN INTERPRETED, London: Oxford University Press, 1964

"A totally objective examination of it [the Qur'an] in the light of modern knowledge, leads us to recognize the agreement between the two, as has been already noted on repeated occasions. It makes us deem it quite unthinkable for a man of Muhammad's time to have been the author of such statements on account of the state of knowledge in his day. Such considerations are part of what gives the Qur'anic Revelation its unique place, and forces the impartial scientist to admit his inability to provide an explanation which calls solely upon materialistic reasoning." --Maurice Bucaille, THE QUR'AN AND MODERN SCIENCE, 1981, p. 18.


“It is by far the finest work of Arabic prose in existence.” -- Alan Jones (The Oriental Institute, Oxford)

I'm perfectly happy to concede that the Quran is a work of literary excellence (though I confess my preference for the above mentioned limerick).

So what?

Boru
‘Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.’ Ralph Waldo Emerson
Reply
#30
RE: Muslims: If the Koran is Unaltered...
The book was not revealed for a silly showing off purpose , That is why




Quote:“This is the book, in it is guidance for sure without doubt, to those who fear Allah”. (2:2)

“They are invited to the book of Allah to settle their dispute”. (3:23)

“We have sent down to you (O Muhammad) in truth so that you might judge between men as guided by Allah”. (4:105).

“And this is a book which We have revealed as a blessing, so follow it and be righteous, that you may receive mercy”. (6:155).

“A book revealed unto you, so that your heart be not in any difficulty on that account, (so that) with it you may warn (the sinful) and teach the believers”. (7:2).

“This Qur’an is not such as can be produced by other than Allah, on the contrary it is a confirmation of (revelations) that were sent before it, and a full explanation of the book, wherein there is not doubt from the Lord of the worlds”. (10:37)

“And We sent down the book to you for the express purpose that you should make clear to them those things in which they differ, and so that it should be a guide and mercy to those who believe”. (16:64).

“We have revealed for you (O men) a book in which there is a message for you, will you then not understand”. (21:10).

“These are the verses of the book that make things clear”. (26:2).

“... A book which We have sent down unto you with full of blessings so that they may meditate on its signs and that man of understanding may receive admonition”. (38:29).

“Verily We have revealed the book to you in truth for instructing mankind. He that receives guidance benefits his own soul, but he that strays injures his own soul”. (39:41).



Angel
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Sudan scraps apostasy law and alcohol ban for non-Muslims zebo-the-fat 19 1739 October 14, 2020 at 10:20 am
Last Post: Mister Agenda
  [Quranic Reflection]: What should Muslims do when the verses of God are made fun of? WinterHold 37 3037 September 9, 2020 at 5:28 pm
Last Post: Abaddon_ire
  [Remember]: how the Spanish infedels treated Muslims WinterHold 146 5026 August 8, 2020 at 4:18 am
Last Post: Helios
  For being religious, Muslims sure lie a lot! Jehanne 12 1013 October 20, 2018 at 1:17 pm
Last Post: Brian37
  Should muslims obey infidel leaders in non islamic countries? Rika82 6 489 September 13, 2018 at 4:10 am
Last Post: pocaracas
  Can muslims even be artists or game developers if imagery is forbidden? Rokan 0 279 August 29, 2018 at 4:14 am
Last Post: Rokan
  8000 Muslims massacred by White, racist European non-Muslims. All Euro vs Euro WinterHold 92 13574 June 13, 2018 at 12:54 am
Last Post: WinterHold
  Muslims , please answer this . Enlightened Ape 7 1082 April 21, 2018 at 1:31 pm
Last Post: Mystic
  Good Muslims account_inactive 26 2878 March 3, 2017 at 3:04 pm
Last Post: account_inactive
  In muslims schools teachers beat kids and teach them hate toward non-muslims Fake Messiah 26 3573 January 25, 2017 at 10:27 am
Last Post: Mister Agenda



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)