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Would Jesus promote punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?
#21
RE: Would Jesus promote punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?
Quote:Tribalism occurs when we say "people like that are dumb and people like me are smart." Or when we look at a large and diverse group of people and say "those people are promoting tribalism but people like me oppose it." 
Nah that's called stating a fact 

Quote:That's because you are promoting tribalism, by blaming a tribe who's different from you.
Nope he has no tribe

Again your tired "but you are too" fails
“The sun from far gives life. But get close to it and it burns anything down to ashes”

[Image: flag-ukraine_1f1fa-1f1e6.png]  Heart [Image: canada-google.png]        

 “No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?”
–SHIRLEY CHISHOLM


      
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#22
RE: Would Jesus promote punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?
(July 27, 2020 at 4:24 pm)Greatest I am Wrote:
(July 26, 2020 at 7:46 pm)Grandizer Wrote: Jesus is whomever you want him to be.

Basically, but that does not speak to the morality angle in the O.P.

If you're looking for moral lessons and exemplars in magic book, you've utterly missed the point of magic book.

It tells you how to get into the themepark in the sky, not how to be a good person.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#23
RE: Would Jesus promote punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?
(July 27, 2020 at 4:24 pm)Greatest I am Wrote: What do you think is the truth?
 

You're working at about 20 watts.
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem




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#24
RE: Would Jesus promote punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?
(July 26, 2020 at 3:01 pm)Greatest I am Wrote: I agree that fathers should sacrifice themselves for their children should the need arise.

Note how that prick Yahweh did the opposite.

Regards
DL

Just to comment on this since I see atheists make a similar remark in their criticism of mainstream Christianity, and I feel it reveals a misunderstanding of the doctrine of the Trinity.

Under Trinitarianism, the analogy of human fathers and sons isn't a good one. Reason why is that the Father and the Son (in the Trinity) are not separate beings with independent wills, but rather they're one and the same being (along with the Holy Spirit) with basically the same will. Whether that means one will ontologically or three wills but in complete unison, I don't know. But the analogy just doesn't work here.
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#25
RE: Would Jesus promote punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?
(July 28, 2020 at 5:44 am)Grandizer Wrote:
(July 26, 2020 at 3:01 pm)Greatest I am Wrote: I agree that fathers should sacrifice themselves for their children should the need arise.

Note how that prick Yahweh did the opposite.

Regards
DL

Just to comment on this since I see atheists make a similar remark in their criticism of mainstream Christianity, and I feel it reveals a misunderstanding of the doctrine of the Trinity.

Under Trinitarianism, the analogy of human fathers and sons isn't a good one. Reason why is that the Father and the Son (in the Trinity) are not separate beings with independent wills, but rather they're one and the same being (along with the Holy Spirit) with basically the same will.

Same being? It depends what passages from the Bible you take

[Image: Jesus-father.jpg]
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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#26
RE: Would Jesus promote punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?
(July 27, 2020 at 6:15 pm)Belacqua Wrote:
(July 27, 2020 at 4:24 pm)Greatest I am Wrote: Tribalism is a part of our instincts as we are born the most insecure animal on the planet.

Tribalism occurs when we say "people like that are dumb and people like me are smart." Or when we look at a large and diverse group of people and say "those people are promoting tribalism but people like me oppose it." 

Quote:you and I will not live long enough to see it.

That's because you are promoting tribalism, by blaming a tribe who's different from you.

You put a lot of words in my mouth.

Where did you see me promote tribalism?

All I did was indicate that it is an instinct in us.

You found you could not offer an alternative and saw that as me promoting it.

Regards
DL

(July 27, 2020 at 9:37 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote:
(July 27, 2020 at 4:24 pm)Greatest I am Wrote: Basically, but that does not speak to the morality angle in the O.P.

If you're looking for moral lessons and exemplars in magic book, you've utterly missed the point of magic book.

It tells you how to get into the themepark in the sky, not how to be a good person.

I disagree. 

The bible is full of moral lessons. 

For instance, the morality of Yahweh's actions teach us much.

Unfortunately, Christians call evil good.

Gnostic Christians learned that Yahweh is an evil prick.

Did you not learn the same moral lesson?

Regards
DL

(July 27, 2020 at 11:35 pm)brewer Wrote:
(July 27, 2020 at 4:24 pm)Greatest I am Wrote: What do you think is the truth?
 

You're working at about 20 watts.

Thanks for putting me above your wattage.

Regards
DL

(July 28, 2020 at 5:44 am)Grandizer Wrote:
(July 26, 2020 at 3:01 pm)Greatest I am Wrote: I agree that fathers should sacrifice themselves for their children should the need arise.

Note how that prick Yahweh did the opposite.

Regards
DL

Just to comment on this since I see atheists make a similar remark in their criticism of mainstream Christianity, and I feel it reveals a misunderstanding of the doctrine of the Trinity.

Under Trinitarianism, the analogy of human fathers and sons isn't a good one. Reason why is that the Father and the Son (in the Trinity) are not separate beings with independent wills, but rather they're one and the same being (along with the Holy Spirit) with basically the same will. Whether that means one will ontologically or three wills but in complete unison, I don't know. But the analogy just doesn't work here.

It might work if they all shared the same single consciousness but only the father knows some things, like the time of the end.

They should have stuck with the original trinity of father, mother and child.

Regards
DL
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#27
RE: Would Jesus promote punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?
(July 28, 2020 at 11:03 am)Greatest I am Wrote:
(July 27, 2020 at 11:35 pm)brewer Wrote: You're working at about 20 watts.

Thanks for putting me above your wattage.

Regards
DL

Not even close.

I gave my opinion on the fairy tale, you wanted to argue with a page of crap, youtube vid and then asked me about truth. None of it is true dipshit.

As far as I'm concerned it's the same as arguing about the morality of the tooth fairy reward or punishing kids for loosing teeth.

But if this is where you mentally live, all I have is......... Facepalm
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem




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#28
RE: Would Jesus promote punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?
(July 27, 2020 at 2:29 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote:


I would say Jesus' rules apply to Jesus as well. Just read it in context all the way back to 20. "unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law..." As nudger pointed out, Jesus is righteousness so that points moot. I call people fools everyday, for the right reason. Calling a spade a spade isn't a sin, doing it with a heart that's angry is. This fairly obviously what was being pointed out. It's not just the law, it's the intent you're breaking.

(July 27, 2020 at 4:24 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

so you think he was rude to his Mom and therefore not honoring they father and mother?
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post

always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
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#29
RE: Would Jesus promote punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?
(July 28, 2020 at 11:03 am)Greatest I am Wrote:
(July 27, 2020 at 9:37 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: If you're looking for moral lessons and exemplars in magic book, you've utterly missed the point of magic book.

It tells you how to get into the themepark in the sky, not how to be a good person.

I disagree. 

The bible is full of moral lessons. 

For instance, the morality of Yahweh's actions teach us much.

Unfortunately, Christians call evil good.
It's full of examples that you apply an external moral standard to, as demonstrated in your remarks, not lessons - or at least not any lesson you appear inclined to accept.    

Quote:Gnostic Christians learned that Yahweh is an evil prick.

Did you not learn the same moral lesson?

Regards
DL
Wrong person to ask.  Magic book had no place whatsoever in my moral education.  I can only point out that if this is what you took from magic book it must be referring to some standard outside of magic book.  That's not uncommon, it was a preexisting belief about gods in general in the relevant time frame.  No one learned it from reading magic book.  

TLDR, no, I didn't learn that from magic book, neither did the gnostics, and neither did you.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#30
RE: Would Jesus promote punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?
(July 28, 2020 at 1:30 pm)tackattack Wrote:
(July 27, 2020 at 2:29 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote:


I would say Jesus' rules apply to Jesus as well. Just read it in context all the way back to 20. "unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law..." As nudger pointed out, Jesus is righteousness so that points moot. I call people fools everyday, for the right reason. Calling a spade a spade isn't a sin, doing it with a heart that's angry is. This fairly obviously what was being pointed out. It's not just the law, it's the intent you're breaking.

(July 27, 2020 at 4:24 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

so you think he was rude to his Mom and therefore not honoring they father and mother?

Yes, I do. I also agree with FM’s assessment about calling people ‘fools’, although the inclusion of the passages from Galatians and James are misplaced (Jesus wasn’t the one speaking in those verses).

Boru
‘Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.’ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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